Build me a killer Rock/Metal Rig for 1K


my old rig is history..devoured by a audio eating species called AudiogoN'ers All I could save were a pair of Thiel 3.5's that have many good years left on them.They are 89 dB and 4 ohm of hunger.Help me..for less than $1000 show me an amp to tame the Thiel beasts,a pre(tubed/remote) to sweeten the Thiel beast.A CDP or SACDP to sing to the Thiel beast.My cage is 14'X20'X8' I listen to classic rock/metalmodern rock/metal lots of classic pop and some heavy metal rap.I dont need window shattering SPL's just decent volume with great bass and transparency. Oh yeah,I also need recommendations for cables to keep the Thiel beast from wandering away and some wires to tie the electronics together.A grand aint much to work on so, vintage gear?
128x128david99
I just went through a similar transformation.My speakers are Infinity RSIIIb's,spl 89 dbs same as your Theil's.
The Sony sacd from Cruchfield for 250 new in a no brainer.
For a preamp YS-Audio a Hong Kong manufacture ,sells their symphony tube model including shipping to your door for $400.00.It is a killer preamp.We compared it to a Cary $1600.unit,Counterpointe 5.1,Audio Innovation's,and Conrad Johnson's PV-5 it blew them all away.This may be the biggest give away in hi-end audio today.The construction,metal work,and sound are to die for.Good people too.
For the amp I suggest a used Golden Tube SE-40,these are available in great shape in the 400-500 range.It is rated at 40/ch, has 3-5881/channel.They look and sound like a $3000.00 amp.That is why in my opinion they went out of business.They lost money on ever one they made. This amp I feel is a steal a these prices.
Best of luck on your system.
Mike
Metal, eh? Sweeten the Thiel beast inside your cage, eh? Forget bright sounding solid state gear with Thiels, obviously. Can you tolerate neutral gear with the Thiels? If not this maybe ultimately the wrong speaker, IMO. But given your situation you'll have to make them work. So we need a lush solid state amp, then. A tube amp with the testicular fortitude you crave will be over your budget. But there is lush solid state to be had. The best example I've seen is an Audio Alchemy OM-150 amp. Figure $500-600 used for one with both external power supplies. You'll probably need both. Lush midrange and a bone crushing bottom end. Class A up to 15-20W, 150W into 8, 250-300W into 4 (depending on who you ask), stable into 2.

Parasound also has some powerful amps in this price range, and they're decent, but a little colored in their sound. I'd forget adcom and rotel for this task. I prefer 6550/KT88s for metal, and adcom is very much the opposite of that. You might also look at B&K. I think they have a Reference 2220 that isn't too bad. Not sure what it goes for used, but it's like $1k new, so it might be close to the Audio Alchemy. Other brands I liked metal on were Classe (CA201?) and a McCormack DNA. But those are probably too much, even used.

As for the preamp. You're not gonna find a remote control tube pre, and stay under budget. Especially after budgeting for a muscle amp. The matching audio alchemy pre amp (DLC) wasn't bad. ($125-250 used, depending on what power supply). Sort of transparent for the $$$. Personally I'd just get the amp first, and try a discman with volume control directly into the amp. See how you like it. That may be good enough.

After for the player. I'd be tempted to try a DVD player with volume control or even a discman. It depends on what you have on hand. That would someehat eliminate the need for a line stage preamp. If you're after SACD, your best bet is a Sony 500V or CE775 changer. Figure $100-200 depending on if you can find one. I haven't heard them, but they are reported to the somewhat warm sounding. So they shouldn't suck too bad. :-) but if you get one of those, you'll need a line stage for volume attenuation.

Feedback? (pun not intended).
David, I understand your wish list. Now let's get real. Some one on a tight budget should forget remote controlled tubes. To expensive to start with. An older model will probably need new tubes. That means more money. Most tube preamps have high output impedances which would restrict your choice of solid state amps with their usual low input impedance. The one exception that might fit into your budget is the McCormack amps, which by the way would accomodate a passive preamp as well. IMHO the McCormacks while rather smooth on top (important) and having good power below( also important) are a bit too forward for the Thiels. Though they would work very well only the big(read expensive)C-J solid state amps can handle the 4 Ohm load. I'm going to make some suggestions that may not fit all your criterion but I think will none the less work nicely together. These items are currently for sale on Audiogon: AMP Muse 100 2000 Special Edition (200 Watts into 4 OHms) at $625 OBO, PREAMP Audio Alchemy DLC (remote, 4 inputs, no tape loop or phono)$245 OBO, CD CAl Temperst MK III $225 OBO. I know that adds up to $1120. Remember that all these items are listed with OBO (or best offer). I think (hope) you can negotiate at least 10% off. There are some other choices out there as well. If you pay for shipping I'll send you free a pair of good condition Monster Power Line 2 speaker cables (I believe they were once Monster's top of the line). I think some body can offer you a good deal on some decent interconnects. Good luck.
Thanks everyone for the tips!
Thank you for the offer Siem a.k.a. Unsound.I will be in touch with you.
Here's another question.Does Sony make a SACD player with remote volume?
AMP, AMP, AMP, AMP, AMP, AMP, AMP, AMP, AMP, AMP, AMP, AMP,

you have been given some good ideas on amps but I would stay away from the Golden Tubes unless you are real handy at fixing things. I have a friend, who is handy, owned 2 of the SE40s and never stopped working on them. He talked with lots of other owners and found the same trend. The Classe would certainly fit the bill if you can find one at $400-$600 (don't worry about age they have great build quality and are reliable). Would not do parasound, B&K, or Adcom, I don't think you will get the "warmness" you need alothough you would get all the balls. Not familiar with McCormick, outside of articles, but it might do the trick. Another couple of great values that should have the power needed:
*Audio Analoge Donizetti power amp...one for sale right now for $800 but that is a little high. You will have to wait and watch for the right situation since they don't come around too often. Great looking gear too.

*Marsh 200w - pushing your budget but there are 2 on AGON both under $900 right now.

Musical Fidelity - a little high but you might be able to find something in your range

Sim Audio - there is a W4070 right now for $650...killer deal. Older model but it would do the trick.

Electrocompaniet - in particular the AW60FTT...there was someone selling 2, $650 each, and his add is still up. I owned this and I like it better than anything else I have mentioned so far. Original retail was $1999 (a little high). Look under AW60 because the guy spelled Electro wrong. If you have to wait, I think it would be worth it. 60W of class A power (acts like 100+) and very warm (some might say dark...but what do they know)

NAD - known for being "dark" also but plenty of drive and headroom (their specialty) and you should be able to find an older retired model well within your budget.

ANOTHER THOUGHT: Consider an integrated and drop the pre tube requirement, it would save a lot of money and if you stuck to Sim, Musical Fidelity, Electrocompaniet and Sim (maybe even the NAD) I think you would find everything you want.

TUBE PREAMP, TUBE PREAMP, TUBE PREAMP, TUBE PREAMP, TUBE PR
Don't know the YS-Audio but I would take a chance for that kind of money.

Consance T99 retails for $799 and now comes with a remote option - you will have to look around to find the remote option and get it used. Maybe you can find a dealer willing to sell a "demo" to you. I bet they would like to move some of the equipment.

Call some dealers and see if you can find a used or demo piece at the right price.

CD PLAYER, CD PLAYER, CD PLAYER, CD PLAYER, CD PLAYER, CD
I wouldn't do anything out of my way to get SACD since there isn't enough software out there to please a Rock dude like you. However, if it comes with the deal, why not.

Sony - the Sony line is extensive and have changed models so many times it is hard to keep up. But study the line and almost anything you settle on will be a good buy. They have really done an excellant job on trickle down since the relase of SACD, specially the SCD-1.

Cambridge Audio D-500SE - mint unit for $250 right now on AGON...not SACD but you are going to have to go a long way to get better sound for the price.

There are others but it isn't necessary to look further.

CABLES, CABLES, CABLES. CABLES, CABLES. CABLES, CABLES
SPEAKER
Nordost Blue Heaven used - about $100 bucks a pair for 1m
or Nordost Solor Wind 1m pair $110 retail, tough to find used...all the Nordost is fast, great bass, and neutral. If you want coloration (i.e. warmth) go with Van Den Hul in this too...about the same price.

SPEAKER CABLE
Van Den Hul - The Wind MkII Hybred...now they changed the model number but I believe this is the same model I bought. Butt ugly but it will make your system sing...warmth and deep taught bass. 8ft terminated pair was around $175 retail...again, you will have to do some homework but it will be worth the work.

COUPLE OF OTHER THOUGHTS
1. Save some more money and get $1500 and the task will be much easier.
2. Consider selling the Theils and combining the money (again the $1500 for other would be best) then start from scratch so you don't have to worry so much about a hard-to-drive speaker. Triangle (both are 90db+ so any amp you want will do) Antal ($1500 retail) and Celius ($2000 retail)...not a better sounding speaker in that price range, though MANY others would disagree. I am not sure of how they would do with so much Rock music but I guess real well...you could even supplement with a used paradigm sub and kick some serious, heavy metal, guitar toten, funny cigerette smokin, thunder clappin, jaw-droppin, knee bendin, in-your-face, rock the house, slammin, ear-bleeding, love-makin, ROCK AND ROLL BABY!!!!!!

Have fun