Build me a killer Rock/Metal Rig for 1K


my old rig is history..devoured by a audio eating species called AudiogoN'ers All I could save were a pair of Thiel 3.5's that have many good years left on them.They are 89 dB and 4 ohm of hunger.Help me..for less than $1000 show me an amp to tame the Thiel beasts,a pre(tubed/remote) to sweeten the Thiel beast.A CDP or SACDP to sing to the Thiel beast.My cage is 14'X20'X8' I listen to classic rock/metalmodern rock/metal lots of classic pop and some heavy metal rap.I dont need window shattering SPL's just decent volume with great bass and transparency. Oh yeah,I also need recommendations for cables to keep the Thiel beast from wandering away and some wires to tie the electronics together.A grand aint much to work on so, vintage gear?
david99
Yeah I have to totally disagree with the gentleman who doesn't agree with BALANCING TONALITY and such with gear! Especially at this price level!! Even ultra high end stuff needs to BALANCE for sound with other gear sonically! From years of working around high end products, that theory of just putting together a bunch of "SONICALLY TRANSPARANT/UNCOLORED" gear doens't every really work out! EACH AND EVERY PIECE has it's own sonic signature, no matter what you do! EVERYONE HAS DIFFERENT GEAR IN THIS BUSINESS!...SO total tranaparancy has to be a mystical perceived factor.
I think people do best to Soniclally match up components that MATE well with each other, and BALANCE each other out. The reason people lilke Thiels with Tubes is for this very reason! Thiels often tend to error towards brightness, and tubes tends to BALANCE THAT OUT. Since there's NO TOTALLY TRANPARANT speaker out there, you should match gear for proper tonality. That's the way it is.
As for BALANCING THE SOUND, my years of audiophile experience ALWAYS SUGGESTS that ALWAYS comes down to SYSTEM MATCHING when in comes to compoenents! yes BALANCE is what you're after, with ALL GEAR! THAT'S RIGHT, ALL GEAR has it's own sound and characteristics WHICH NEED TO BE MATED PROPERLY FOR BEST SOUND! There is NO PERFECT GEAR OUT THERE!...IT'S all flawed! And like any relationship, it needs proper balance to work best. End of story.
Anyone who thinks you shouldn't match gear for BALANCE, or coloration or whatever needs to tell me about some system they have, or have heard, WHICH IS SONICALLY NEUTRAL AND TOTALLY TRANSPARANT, AND WITHOUT NEED FOR SYSTEM MATCHING!...DOESN'T EXIST!!! There is NO perfect gear!
As for what Ezmeraldal1 mentioned regarding the Parasound CDp/1000, I used to have that unit in my system for a while and it's not very good! Infact, as a standalone unit, even the little Jolida CD601, Cal audio DX1 and 2, Cal audio Icon MKII, Acurus ACD11,and Rega Planet CD player's are all MUCH better than that player you mentioned! Yeah granted they can't be had as cheep, but for a $100 more you can get most of these used. That said, my DVDA310 is STILL BETTER THAN ALL OF THESE PLAYERS SONICALLY! And you can buy mine for $200 with remote and volume control for Passive set up!!
He will STILL NEED a tube preamp to match with his solid state amp at that budget, and it'll be workable with in a few bucks or so. '
Also, if you likes the Thiels, you should stick with em. That's my take.
Let me break it down again:

Panasonic DVDA310 ...$200 or less
Aragon 4004(or 4004 MKII..even better)...$400-600
used tube preamp in the $200-500 range.

You'll have killer sound, and you can upgrade pieces in the future should your budget allow. For right now however, at that price range, you'll not get better sound from your speakers for YOUR PURPOSES! I garantee it!
David, very sorry to hear of your circumstances, but I hope the audio divestiture is the greatest of your troubles.

And now for something *completely* different ...let me suggest something off the wall (my specialty) ... I don't know how important aesthetics are and if you are handy, but what about making a DIY powered sub to take much of the Thiel load off the amp, then go with a tube integrated or separates (which should then have ample power)? Given your not-huge room size, I wouldn't think the 89 dB sensitivity is the key issue. Don't know the impedance curve of the Thiel's but wouldn't the most severe dips be in the lower frequencies? You could make something like a sealed Shiva alignment with a Parts Express plate amp for a touch over $200 - which may be less than the margin between acceptable go-it-alone amps?

Just a thought.
Inscrutable, The Thiel 3.5 impedance load is 4 Ohms nominal and 4 Ohms minimal. Frequency response is 20 to 20K +/- 2 db. The speakers are time and phase coherent. I really think adding a sub woofer would be a big mistake. I think the most importatnt piece in this particular puzzle is the amplifier. My suggestions were based upon currently available items. My first pick in an amp any where near this price point is the C-J 2300. But alas that's would leave nothing left for the rest of the system. My next choice would be a pair of B&K M 200's. A pair recently sold for $600. Alas, the only ones currently available are being sought for 50% more that that. The C-J would permit a tube pre when more money was available. The B&K's input impedance load isn't that complimentary to tubes. An inoffensive preamp would be the second in priority. As digital improves at a faster rate than most any other products combined with typically poor (from the sellers perspective) resale value upgrades here should be considered last. I know, garbage in - garbage out. But we're dealing with a very tight budget here.
Unsound,
Are you sure about the impedance figures? That would be the first speaker of which I've heard that had a completely flat impedance curves - most drop at least 10-15% (usually much more) from nominal to minimum. Some M-L stats go down to almost 1 ohm. A flat 4 ohms and 89 dB/W-m is not a very tough load. I agree that I wouldn't normally want to integrate a sub ... but the $ differential to get a powerful stable amp that does it all into a portrayed very difficult load got me thinking about how to tame the load instead. If the mountain won't come to Mohammed ...
Inscrutable, those are the manufacturers specs. While all such specs need to be taken with a grain of salt I believe Thiel to be one of the better manufacturers in regard to legitimate specs. Jim Thiel intentionaly designs his products in this manner. Of course this keeps amps that are up to the impedance load very stable. Some complain that the extra components used in his crossovers to accomplish this suck the energy out of the system. I don't have an opinon on that. These speakers were $2850 when new over 10 years ago. I think the specs are pretty impressive. IMHO the sound is impressive too. This is a high performance vehicle.To add a cheap crossover and amp to this design (with the extra cost cabling) would be like putting training wheels on a Ferrari. I appreciate your innovative, out of the box thinking but I don't think it's an appropriate course of action. BTW Thiel origianlly recommended 40-250 watts per channel then increased the recommedation to 50-250 watts per channel. When I asked Jim Thiel about these recommendations he said that they were in reference to standard solid state 8 Ohm ratings and a more accurate guide would be 100-500 watts into 4 Ohms. Unlike many other speakers The Thiels don't roll off the top end. As such any abberations in this region will be heard loud and clear. That's why many say the Thiels are bright and need warm and/or tube equipment preceeding them. There is some truth to this. I would argue that you really need clean, accurate equipment preceeding them, other wise you might be throwing away some of that resolution. What's needed is a powerfull, clean amp that can handle a steady 4 Ohm load. That kind of amp usually costs money. If one can't afford that, then the warm compensating approach would make more sense than going with a typical cheap bright, chalky front end.