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Build me a killer Rock/Metal Rig for 1K

my old rig is history..devoured by a audio eating species called AudiogoN'ers All I could save were a pair of Thiel 3.5's that have many good years left on them.They are 89 dB and 4 ohm of hunger.Help me..for less than $1000 show me an amp to tame the Thiel beasts,a pre(tubed/remote) to sweeten the Thiel beast.A CDP or SACDP to sing to the Thiel beast.My cage is 14'X20'X8' I listen to classic rock/metalmodern rock/metal lots of classic pop and some heavy metal rap.I dont need window shattering SPL's just decent volume with great bass and transparency. Oh yeah,I also need recommendations for cables to keep the Thiel beast from wandering away and some wires to tie the electronics together.A grand aint much to work on so, vintage gear?
128x128david99
unsound
7,340 posts
 
Inscrutable, The Thiel 3.5 impedance load is 4 Ohms nominal and 4 Ohms minimal. Frequency response is 20 to 20K +/- 2 db. The speakers are time and phase coherent. I really think adding a sub woofer would be a big mistake. I think the most importatnt piece in this particular puzzle is the amplifier. My suggestions were based upon currently available items. My first pick in an amp any where near this price point is the C-J 2300. But alas that's would leave nothing left for the rest of the system. My next choice would be a pair of B&K M 200's. A pair recently sold for $600. Alas, the only ones currently available are being sought for 50% more that that. The C-J would permit a tube pre when more money was available. The B&K's input impedance load isn't that complimentary to tubes. An inoffensive preamp would be the second in priority. As digital improves at a faster rate than most any other products combined with typically poor (from the sellers perspective) resale value upgrades here should be considered last. I know, garbage in - garbage out. But we're dealing with a very tight budget here.
inscrutable
313 posts
 
Unsound,
Are you sure about the impedance figures? That would be the first speaker of which I've heard that had a completely flat impedance curves - most drop at least 10-15% (usually much more) from nominal to minimum. Some M-L stats go down to almost 1 ohm. A flat 4 ohms and 89 dB/W-m is not a very tough load. I agree that I wouldn't normally want to integrate a sub ... but the $ differential to get a powerful stable amp that does it all into a portrayed very difficult load got me thinking about how to tame the load instead. If the mountain won't come to Mohammed ...
unsound
7,340 posts
 
Inscrutable, those are the manufacturers specs. While all such specs need to be taken with a grain of salt I believe Thiel to be one of the better manufacturers in regard to legitimate specs. Jim Thiel intentionaly designs his products in this manner. Of course this keeps amps that are up to the impedance load very stable. Some complain that the extra components used in his crossovers to accomplish this suck the energy out of the system. I don't have an opinon on that. These speakers were $2850 when new over 10 years ago. I think the specs are pretty impressive. IMHO the sound is impressive too. This is a high performance vehicle.To add a cheap crossover and amp to this design (with the extra cost cabling) would be like putting training wheels on a Ferrari. I appreciate your innovative, out of the box thinking but I don't think it's an appropriate course of action. BTW Thiel origianlly recommended 40-250 watts per channel then increased the recommedation to 50-250 watts per channel. When I asked Jim Thiel about these recommendations he said that they were in reference to standard solid state 8 Ohm ratings and a more accurate guide would be 100-500 watts into 4 Ohms. Unlike many other speakers The Thiels don't roll off the top end. As such any abberations in this region will be heard loud and clear. That's why many say the Thiels are bright and need warm and/or tube equipment preceeding them. There is some truth to this. I would argue that you really need clean, accurate equipment preceeding them, other wise you might be throwing away some of that resolution. What's needed is a powerfull, clean amp that can handle a steady 4 Ohm load. That kind of amp usually costs money. If one can't afford that, then the warm compensating approach would make more sense than going with a typical cheap bright, chalky front end.
inscrutable
313 posts
 
Unsound, I don't disagree with anything you've said. This is going to be a temporary, stepping-stone solution to get some music playing. [David, I don't mean to refer to you in 3rd person as if you're not here, but I don't know if you are here ;-)] If David is eventually going to get to a balanced system, and buys cdp, pre, and amp for $1k, my guess is he's not very happy with any of them, and certainly none of them survive into the 'permanent' solution. Frankly, my first thought is to sell the Thiels and then buy a complete well-balanced system, but it sounded like David was reluctant to part with the last/cornerstone of his system, and I can understand that. Disregarding that, I thought about a cdp with variable output direct into an amp of reasonable quality. A 'powerful, clean amp that can handle a steady 4 ohm load' is not that rare nor pricey. I'm thinking something SS like a McCormack 0.5, Belles 150A, or Citation 5.1 - with some patience, all can be had around $600-700 used. That leaves $300-400 for the cdp. This won't be the last word, but a couple reasonably good choices with line level output control are the Newcastle 980 and the H-K 8550. The amps still have up-side potential, and bought at the right price all this will resell easily.
unsound
7,340 posts
 
Inscrutable and Dave, I can't comment about most of your recommendations mentioned above, as I don't have any experience with most of them. I do agree with your McCormack recommendation whole heartedly as a viable option. Dave, how about an update?
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