cart measurement vs quoted spec

Axel,

Glai hit on the keys to why our measurements are off, and this was confirmed to me by Dre. He'll be posting when he gets some time, but the short answer is we are not getting the noise floor low enough with our crude methodology.

When I use my DMM on MAX for example, I am only capturing the peaks and these are probably combined harmonics from extraneous noise. This is a problem when measuring the channel output with the test tone playing through that channel, but it is an even bigger problem when trying to measure that very small signal when the tone is playing in the opposite channel.

We need a 1kHz notch filter. ;-) That's one way to do it.

Unless you guys include a notch filter to attenuate frequencies above/below the test tone, you're wasting your time using a multi-meter.

Surface noise, intra-vinyl resonances and warp wow will muddy the signal you're trying to measure with random noise. That's why Glai's measurements were "fluctuating" (aside from the washing machine).

Been there, did that...

Oh! So now you show up with the answer! Thanks Doug. :-) Now we know why Wally was charging what he does/did for the Analog Shop(?).

Yes, there was something about all of this that didn't quite add up in my head. See what 15 years of working in the software lab instead of the hardware lab can do to your skill set. I think that for AZ not having the filter isn't such a big deal as you can still get very close, then finish by ear. As you well know. ;-)

I like watchin' ya'll suffer fer a bit. Drives the lesson home!

Wally's price musta bin based on the cost o' them filters. It shore weren't based on the quality of th' box or th' terminals. One of 'em darn near gouged up a connector on a $3K pair of speaker cables. We had to file a big spur off'n it.

Howdy guys,
as long as you're have some fun here, I say.

Now my few pennies if you don't mind.
Glai says:
>>> ... or QC is very good. ...Same goes for airtight and Lyra <<<

Now guess WHAT? I put in my consultant's stock Lyra Dorian. NO sibilants, no massed instruments distortion, sailing through the most difficult of my tracks.
For an answers --- see Glai's comment.

I think Doug, who wants us to suffer is doing real good... I had that Windfeld (yes, OK) out, it goes back to the factory. Looking from below it looks VERY much more off then I realised checking from the front. Yes, Doug was right to suggest to trash it, and get a life, hm :-)

Next please, Dan_ed,
you say:
>>> When I use my DMM on MAX for example... <<<
Dear Sir, you must READ my statements properly and sink them in. I AM USING A SCOPE! This multi-meter measurement stuff sux, period.
On a scope you can see what going on, like noise etc. but not every one has one to play with as I mentioned also. So I'm lucky in this regard.
Next, there is NO household appliance running when I measure, period.
I also have a SEPERATE, audio only, circuit from the distribution box --- I'm told that helps :-)

So in closing, I'll have some follow up measurements comming on, with SCOPE and EVERYTHING the same as the Windfeld exercise was done, but now on a Lyra Dorian. J.C. beware :-) The cart is already set-up and running in my rig.

If we screwed up I'll also tell you, and also if we know why --- if we did (actually I'm confident we didn't). Ortofon recalled the cart, and I hope we get to some amicable agreement. If not, we'll see what to do next.

Thank you for your lively interest in this subject and it may yet prove to be of more educational value also, if Doug comes out of his corner and stops smirking at us.

Greetings,
Axel