cart measurement vs quoted spec

Oh! So now you show up with the answer! Thanks Doug. :-) Now we know why Wally was charging what he does/did for the Analog Shop(?).

Yes, there was something about all of this that didn't quite add up in my head. See what 15 years of working in the software lab instead of the hardware lab can do to your skill set. I think that for AZ not having the filter isn't such a big deal as you can still get very close, then finish by ear. As you well know. ;-)

I like watchin' ya'll suffer fer a bit. Drives the lesson home!

Wally's price musta bin based on the cost o' them filters. It shore weren't based on the quality of th' box or th' terminals. One of 'em darn near gouged up a connector on a $3K pair of speaker cables. We had to file a big spur off'n it.

Howdy guys,
as long as you're have some fun here, I say.

Now my few pennies if you don't mind.
Glai says:
>>> ... or QC is very good. ...Same goes for airtight and Lyra <<<

Now guess WHAT? I put in my consultant's stock Lyra Dorian. NO sibilants, no massed instruments distortion, sailing through the most difficult of my tracks.
For an answers --- see Glai's comment.

I think Doug, who wants us to suffer is doing real good... I had that Windfeld (yes, OK) out, it goes back to the factory. Looking from below it looks VERY much more off then I realised checking from the front. Yes, Doug was right to suggest to trash it, and get a life, hm :-)

Next please, Dan_ed,
you say:
>>> When I use my DMM on MAX for example... <<<
Dear Sir, you must READ my statements properly and sink them in. I AM USING A SCOPE! This multi-meter measurement stuff sux, period.
On a scope you can see what going on, like noise etc. but not every one has one to play with as I mentioned also. So I'm lucky in this regard.
Next, there is NO household appliance running when I measure, period.
I also have a SEPERATE, audio only, circuit from the distribution box --- I'm told that helps :-)

So in closing, I'll have some follow up measurements comming on, with SCOPE and EVERYTHING the same as the Windfeld exercise was done, but now on a Lyra Dorian. J.C. beware :-) The cart is already set-up and running in my rig.

If we screwed up I'll also tell you, and also if we know why --- if we did (actually I'm confident we didn't). Ortofon recalled the cart, and I hope we get to some amicable agreement. If not, we'll see what to do next.

Thank you for your lively interest in this subject and it may yet prove to be of more educational value also, if Doug comes out of his corner and stops smirking at us.

Greetings,
Axel

I'd rather stay in my corner. With the extra bass loading it really rocks in here! Also, it makes it easy for your slings and arrows to find me. ;-)

Glad things are sounding better. :-)

Hi All,
as promised some more measurements information.

First the good news:
A well used Lyra Dorian that did perform much better than that first measured cart (PW) showed the following:

Loading with 1k, AND 10nF capacitance, measured on XLR pre-outputs:
Left vs. Right = -0.6dB @ 1kHz 7cm/s lateral (mono track), spec = <1dB (So that was a pass)

Left vs. Right = on 1kHz 7cm/s vertical out of phase track, pretty CLOSE to out of phase, (about 12dB better on listening then PW, pretty good)

1 kHz left channel -28.5dB leakage to right! Spec = >30dB @ 1 kHz! (Only marginally less then spec. and can be attributed to it's aging, or measurement variation(s)...)

1 kHz right channel -28.5dB also, leakage to left! Spec = >30dB @ 1 kHz! (comment as above)

Cart roll-off @ 20kHz -3db (much better then PW rolling off at -6dB)

Resonance at 29Hz at -20dB, high Q for about 3sec. during the sweep track.

The measurements confirmed that the set-up is pretty much OK.

Now, what was NOT OK, was my consultants 'R.O.T.' initial db conversion on some PW dB results. Still the figures show a big problem yet.

Here the revised figures:
No loading i.e. 47k:

Left vs. Right = -1.6dB @ 1kHz 7cm/s lateral (mono track), spec = <0,2dB!

Left vs. Right = on 1kHz 7cm/s vertical out of phase track, clearly NOT EVEN CLOSE to out of phase! (no change as done by listening)

1 kHz left channel only -18dB leakage to right! Spec = >28dB @ 1 kHz! (only a smallish convertion error of 2 dB)

1 kHz right channel only -27dB leakage to left! Spec = >28dB @ 1 kHz! (now this was pretty way out, not in voltage measurement but in the dB conversion! :-(

The end-result is still bad enough though.

There are plenty more measurements on this test record, which where done, but those above tell most of the story.

Track ten for example should produce a clean sine-wave and in the case of the Dorian it does, the PW looked rather distorted leaning to one side and dented in, plus more of such, all supporting that something is not right.

So there you have it...

Next up will be a Transfiguration Orpheus, I'll keep you posted and hope it will not be getting too boring.

As Doug would have it, if its 'broken' why bother to measure it :-) Both the Dorian and Orpheus are not 'broken' so I guess we may have his blessing :-)

Greetings,
Axel