Graham Phantom vs. Phantom II

Dgad, let me quote myself:

"The distance of the counter weight from the pivot does NOT determine the effective mass of a tonearm.
The damping fluid is located circular around the pivot and thus the amount do have ZERO effect on the moving mass of the tonearm."

Now tell me, what your post 09-15-09 - which is obviously written as a direct answer - does have to do with what I said ?
I said that the distance of the counterweight does not DETERMINE the effective mass of the tonearm (take for instance that the countermass is not a moveable weight, but a fixed shaft or a ball - to illustrate the principle...).
And of course does a circular located damping fluid has no effect on the moving mass. It would certain had if it was located in the armtube (which it isn't for obvious reasons).

And yes - we all had the model of the simple lever and the very easy calculation of force being a result of mass and distance in fairly early high school (my sons turns 11 next year and it is in his curriculum for next school-year) - you do not need to search for it on the web.

Let me quote myself once again:

" This is the effective moving mass sans the cartridge. So the effective total mass is always and in any tonearm depending on the added cartridge body weight and the distance this added mass (the cartridge body) has from the pivot. "

Just give it a brief thought, why certain (most..... if technically allowed by their design....) tonearm designers do offered their products with a range of different mass counterweights (even - and especially so - if dynamically damping mechanism (Technics) was incorporated in the design...).
And sorry - physic does not care, whether you personally preferred in your specific set-up and with your taste in sound a low mass counterweight further away from the pivot vs. a higher mass closer to the pivot.

Again - the (obvious... if sad) fact that still most audiophiles do not understand the true nature of dynamically balanced mode and its very special interaction with the cantilever's suspension isn't physics problem either.
That several do prefer a mix of balanced and static mode is certainly fine with me, but is again a result of their sonic preference in their specific set-up and viewed (heard) through their individual matrix.
That try and error in audio does give individual satisfying results is great - that these great results all too often loose their magic touch in a few days or weeks should tell something.
The proof may be in the listening for some - but it is always an individual proof suitable of the one recipient only.
And many times just a lucky cross-out and vice-versa compensations of many sonic mistakes.

The fact that even Joseph Stalin was once backed by a large portion of his people did not make him a great statesman and philanthropist either.
Sorry again, - but this is not an empirical nor an objective set-up according to any scientific rule.
It is a personal impression as a result of a complex bundle of variables and viewed through a private matrix of preferences all your own.

Dgad, I do not want to lecture you nor anybody else.
As you wouldn't believe me anyway let me just suggest you send a PN to Schroeder or Bob Graham - you are in possession of both designers babies and they will happily explain the points to you.

Dertonarm,

I can't be bothered to argue with you but you are wrong. There is effective mass & nominal effective mass. Please understand the difference.

By the way such also applies to effective length of a tonearm.

Dgad, great - now you tell me I am wrong.
O.K. - wrong, but.... wrong with what ?
Anyway - after having learned so much from your two posts, I won't die a stupid man.............
Syntax - you were so right!

Dertonarm

Your physics seems to be faulty here. Assuming that the counter weight is indeed firmly connected to the tonearm tube (which is always the case in a well designed pivoted arm), then, the effective mass of the arm must be dependent on the distance of the counterweight from the pivot (ie. the moment of inertia “I”is dependent on the radius squared). The composite "I" for the arm tube/counterweight and subsequently the "effective mass" would essentially have the same dependency.

Gmorris, please read my initial statement: the effective mass is not DETERMINED by the distance of the counterweight from the pivot.
There are a lot of tonearms - past and present - which do feature different weight counterweights to match different weight cartridges/headshells.
This is done to situate the counterweight (technically preferable (if not sonically in the ears of some audiophiles.....) as close as possible to the pivot.
So the distance is of course ONE factor/parameter of the effective mass, but it ALONE does not determine the effective mass of a tonearm.
A tonearm in static vice versa dynamic mode has different effective mass (and here in this model the distance of the counterweight is usually indeed the ONLY variable parameter in comparism, as the other parameters are fixed).

If an audiophile does only use or look at a tonearm with one fixed mass counterweight only (Graham....) he may overlook that there are other options (Triplanar...).