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Ortofon 2M Red Not Happy Need advice

I just got myself a 2M red. was not able to audition, many of the local shops don't have lower models mounted or identical double turntables for comparison. I went with my gut and dropped a minimal amount of cash on it, figured $100 what is the worse that can happen. Well, I am thoroughly disappointed.

I picked it up since I thought my cart was worn and I needed something to tie me over until I get something serious. My old cart is a Grace F9 Ruby and it beats the pants off of the 2M. I have not let the 2M burn in, but there is such a huge difference between the level of detail between the two carts that I really don't think I can stomach the 2M burned in or not.

The 2M sounds muddy, bright, and is lacking detail big time. Jazz at the pawnshop, take five sounded nice, especially the bottom end but everything else was wrong. Jimi Hendrix came on next, bold as love and little wing were used to audition. Wow, Voice is horrid and the guitar solos made me want to leave the room.

The one thing I can say, surface noise was minimized with the 2M, I think this is due to its inability to pick up detail. I thought my f9 was worn, but it sounds A1 in comparison.

What now, upgrade to the blue? I don't get a refund, otherwise I would take it. Dealer doesn't carry audio technica or denon for the 440 and 160 cannot be exchange candidates. I am seeking a warm and detailed sound. What do you guys think? Should I be more patient and wait for burn in, or is that an uphill battle? Hope to hear from you, thanks.

PS: dealer carries: Dynavector, Ortofon, Lyra, Grado and a couple of others.
dfelkai
almarg's avatar
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
Re Axel's good comments, the Grace F9E and F9E Ruby (I'm assuming it is the E version) had an elliptical stylus. However, based on my experience with both, and on what I recall reading from way back when, VTA/SRA needs to be set for it with the arm considerably down (i.e. down at the pivot end).

Also, the Grace is specified for a load resistance of 100K, while the 2M is specified for the usual 47K. I don't know what value you are using, or how significant a difference it would make, but I thought I'd call it to your attention.

That said, it's not surprising to me that a cartridge costing $100 in today's dollars would be outperformed by an all-time classic, which cost upwards of $200 in the early 1980's. TAS awards notwithstanding.

Regards,
-- Al
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axelwahl
788 posts
 
Hi,
there we go, as Almarg says:
>>> on what I recall reading from way back when, VTA/SRA needs to be set for it with the arm **considerably down** (i.e. down at the pivot end). <<<

The same I had presumed, and then I was just going to post what Raul had to say about the same cart:
>>>... only the Grace Ruby and F9E and Sonus Gold Blue likes a **negative VTA** <<<

So there we are, and as suggested, that "2M Red" wants **POSITIVE** VTA, a pretty different setting from your old Grace Ruby.

Now for Viridian's comment: ... have to call 'Colombo' on this one.
OK, that Grace might be 'a bit long in the tooth' also as it was mentioned.
Furthermore, a top of the line (1980) Empire S1000 ZE/X, and plenty others used aluminium cantilevers -- AND even their 'nude' options often used just a dab of bonding on top.
That '2M Red' is made by people the must have learned just maybe a bit the last 30 years, that THEY make MM carts also, is that fair to suggest?

So, Dfelkai just before all wind up in a panic, move your arm first to level, and then add 2 or 3mm by going higher and try to find your (new) sweet spot.
I'd be blasted if that cart can't get going that way.

Greetings,
Axel
dfelkai OP
89 posts
 
" So, you bought a bottom of the line cartridge with a bonded stylus and aluminum cantilever and it doesn't sound as good as your nude mounted stylus on a ruby cantilvered top-of-the-line cartrdige. We'll just have to call Colombo on this one."

You are right, so right. I got the cart from my old man, and he got it in a trade over 20 years ago. He told me that he used it for about an hour before reverting back to his supex cart. It was used for 30 hours when he got it, hardly broken in. It is a little noisy, and my inexperience lead me to believe perhaps the suspension is gone on it. I think I was wrong.

I believe the Ruby retailed for $300, in 1980 dollars, not sure though.

As for the VTA, yes 3 mm did help, but the adjustment yielded a minor improvement, in my finds eye (or ear).

A buddy of mine bought the 2M Blue at the same time as me, I tried it last night. I am not going to lie when I say that the difference between the Red and the Blue is negligible. Am I just crazy, or does it sound like many of the same flaws from the red carry over into the blue? has anyone else done an A/B like I have, if so what have you found?
axelwahl
788 posts
 
Hey! Patience, just a little.
Now you got the VTA closer, and now it will have to run for a bit.

I often found myself 'through the baby out with the bath water'.

Any of those MMs likes at least a couple of hours to settle in.

Maybe your friend's 'Blue' was also setup with the wrong VTA?
Raul has a saying: **NO Plug&Play** (with an MM)
Do not underestimate some trial and error required.

Axel
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