Why is the price of new tonearms so high

Raul, I did not have the answer I was looking for when I started this thread. The inputs I had then was I was searching for a good arm for the XV1s, you had recommended the AT1503III/IV and someone else the "Grand", theres a pretty big price discrepancy there. Also the other famous arms, the 507II, the 8c, the VIIU, the SQ all seems to be around or below 6k not to mention all the old famous Japanese, 64s/66s, 506, EA-10 etc.

So thanks to all, I think this thread is getting real interesting, different opinions just makes things more interesting, just this is not super serious politics.

"The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh" :-)
Let's see if he leaves us a bit longer with THAT thread.

Why would ANY participant post here if he has NO question?
Looking for deciples? Wrong venue!

Teres said: ~ the more I learn --- the more questions come about. Thank you for making that quite clear again.

Another wise man said: The more I learn, the more I understand I know NOTHING. (Socrates?)

Mr. Know-it-all is no welcome guest at any gathering, just the way it is.
Inferior we can nicely feel by ourselves, no need for outside help :-(
I think we are posting here, and ask questions to SHARE and not be TOLD, pompously or otherwise.

Greetings,
Axel

Dear Daniel,
I really like you and your passionate views and find your postings most entertaining.
For all I know, you may be right about the fact that the FR60 series of tonearms are the best that have ever been built, and I don't doubt that in your system (and those of your friends), the FR64 and FR66 beat all the other 'modern' arms in respect to your subjective preferences.
And that is the important point here Daniel, which you somehow ignore (although I suspect a little tongue-in-cheek?).
It is just your subjective opinion which is formulated by biases, preferences, likes and dislikes.
As (almost) everyone here acknowledges, there can never be a universal 'best' product or system.
If you had continued to contribute in all these Forums on the basis of 'your opinion' rather than an unarguable 'fact', you would not stir up such resentment.....but somehow I believe you quite relish this role of yours.

As an example of a similar Forum posting, look at Albert Porter's reviews on his Technics SP10 Mk2 and Mk3 turntables?
He likewise has a few friends who after listening to these turntables, sold their Walker Prosceniums, Basis Debuts, Ravens etc and bought their own Mk2s and Mk3s.
Never once has Albert issued a proclamation that the Technics SP10 Mk3 is the best turntable ever made and has never been bettered. He simply claims that it is the best he has ever heard?
Now I'm sure that you would not agree with his assessment (and that of his friends), and that would not bother him one iota.
But he would never claim that if you didn't hear what he hears, then your system is 'not up to it?'.

A little humility and vision would go a long way towards making your increasingly hysterical claims a little more balanced, and hence your obvious knowledge and experience, of greater benefit to all the readers of your posts?

You must not change your style too much (as that is part of your charm and entertainment value), but perhaps a little?

Tcheuss
Halcro
PS I never receiver that Email you promised me?

Hi Perrew,
thank you, and back to the subject.

When it comes to new tonearms, affordable ones, it seems there is the RB250, 300, plus some already more pricey mods by 'Origin Life' and then what..... ?

How helpful it could be, to have some value-added notions on any other arms, what about the JELCO range?

A lot of these pricey modern arm are 'jewels' absolutely beautifully made --- and come at a jewellers price too.

Looking for a good, down to earth, value/performance arm I'd like to know about some of these.

In this forum, this far, one can take away the opinion that e.g. an SME V is hardly to be mentioned! ~ $5 000 and below is just too unspeakably gauche. No wonder the question was: "Why are the prices so high...?"

Dear Halcro, you are right.
No - I won't spice up this 1st sentence with one of my over-egomanic, sarcastic, ironic, acid (or whatever...) Gunnery-Drill-Sergant (God - T_bone, that was a great one !!) follow-ups.
Even if I rather see me acting for some other people here rather as an unpleasant mirror showing their own demons reflecting back in their face.

In any case - people like you, T_bone, Kirkus, Perrew and a few other fellow Audiogoner did got nothing but clear answers and comments from me in the past 3-4 months on Audiogon in the various analog-related posts - right ?

I NEVER critizsed any other Audiogoner's System set-up featured by pictures and/or description ( certainly not because I thought they were perfect, but because it is their toy and period.), I never said to anybody here in any post that he is deaf or has wrong listening biases.

Only I am getting accused.

Did I ever asked for your listening biases or "qualification".
Nope.
My listening bias ?
A TRUE reproduction of the real thing.
Including a real space with a sense of 3-dimensionality reproduction of individual sound sources.
Uncolored etc. that is not worth further mention.
Accompanied by - and this is a VERY fascinating experience - a convincing sense of real-life physical "weight" in each singular source convincing the listener that something is actually "there".
Add real life dynamics and colorful tone and you have my bias.

So what do these omnipresent audiophile phrases help ?

Nothing.

Most would claim the same being theirs.
So we are again in "audiophile vacuum" of individual experience and individual levels and biases which none of the other can judge and value - unless sitting on the sweet spot in the room of the other in a 1st world experience.
That is the link between Syntax, Heradot and me.
We can value the comments of the others and we can understand each others point-of-view.

As for the Technics SP-10 Mk2 and Mk3 discussion: I can very well understand Porter's point-of-view and do understand as well their moves.
I know from 1st hand experience the possibilities of the SP-10 (any version) as well as its limitations ( no matter what plinth in use).

These discussions about sound and listening biases via the internet are futile to the extreme - as none (or very few...) are based on real experiences.
So what is happening here?
We are exchanging personal experiences, point-of-views and positions - all these do lack a common ground.
The components can not act as common ground as they do have too strong interaction which the system they are part of.
The listening rooms can't either.
The personal biases - of course not as unknown to teh others except for hollow audio phrases.
If we could agree on 2-3 handful of current production LPs with clear specified groove-angle compliant VTA settings - then we would have a common ground.

Harry Pearson did part of that when he established his favourite picks and used them for almost 4 decades to put his listening biases - and results ! - on a common ground.
It was a great help and it did put the audiophile review on kind of a common basis.
I followed his reviews for 12 years and then finally visited him on May 1st, 1988 in Sea Cliff.
During that 4 hour listening session I learned his biases and room and his personal preferences much better than in dozens of reviews I read in the years before.
Now I had a picture.
Everything before was a vague idea - now, and only now I had a clear picture.
But the records did lead the way.

If we could agree on a package of 20 records which are available for standard price to all audiophiles - that would be a small step for each, but a big step for the audiophile community in terms of a common ground and better understanding each other.

And of course - there can never be a "perfect" or "best" component.
Why ?
Because each and every component - foremost the tonearm ! - can only be seen in interaction with its mated partners.
As we haven't standards for output-/input impedance, sensitivity, cantilever compliance, groove-angle and gain - we are dealing with a system of countless parameters depending on the other.
Dreadful situation.
Unthinkable in Pro-Audio.

In any case - I guess the common ground is worth some discussion.
Let me strongly encourage you and others to work out such a package and try to establish it.
It will be helpful to all.
Being 10, 20 or 30 records - it will be enough to cover all aspects of recorded music and we have enough high quality recordings around (thanks to the great wave of re-issues from golden days past) to have open choice.

I hope some fellow analog-Audiogoners do try to bring this package on state and established.
I won't participate.

Did you notice that I didn't mention the particular tonearm I'm in love with in this whole post............

Cheers,
D.