Direct Drive turntables

Dear Jj2468: +++++ " No aversion to measurements here. It's just that I tend to put more trust in our ears. " +++++

+++++ " I agree that our ears and our perception are more important than a number on paper. " +++++

well, yes and no: in an strict point of view where the target is to achieve a performance with the less " colorations " ( where colorations means: noise, distortions, inaccuracies, etc, etc. ) those two statements are untrue.

I know several audio system owners that are really proud of each one audio system quality performance where they have severe " colorations " because they have an unmatched speaker electrical impedance curve with an amplifier(s) with high output impedance or whatever other " problems " around. That they like it does not means the performance is right because that performance is " wrong ". First step to be confidence with our ears is that we have an in deep experiece/knowledge about music and how it sound or shoul be to sounds, what we like has nothing to see with what is the real thing if we like the " wrong " music presentation.

Problem with measurements is that not many people " understand " it. Many measurements say almost nothing alone and only make sense when we " combine " two or more measurements.
The match between amplifier/speaker impedance as a RIAA eq. deviation are only a few of the measurements examples that alone can tell us part of what we are hearing, normally we have to combine several measurements to more or less understand what's happening.

IMHO today ( in these times. )it is pathetic to read elsewhere that what it counts is only what we hear, it does not matters that what we hear is wrong way wrong!!!!!.
This kind of thinking has a price very high price that all of us ( the high end audio world. ) are paying: mediocrity, that's what we overall have in our home audio systems. This is a fact not an opinion: take a look to almost all the audio links in the audio chain and we can find that in the last 20-30 yyears we don't have almost no improvements or signs that the industry is growing-up in quality performance. We are extremely proud and happy because our SP-10s are wonderful or because the vintage MM/MIs are great alternative, my God!!!!!!!

Shame of us and shame of industry we have ( with exceptions. ).

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

I agree on the post as a whole Raul.
However - "wrong" or "right" will - in the very end - always be up to the individual listeners taste.
There is no absolute here (which is were...) - not in hearing.
Hearing is always a lone and individual one,- and so will be the final judgement about a certain sound systems performance: - individual.
I guess it is indeed rather a matter of different levels of experience.
The seasoned listener to many different systems with a certain technical background will always have a wider foundation - a more solid ground - on which he can make a "judgement".

Dear dertonarm: Agree, so many of us has a lot to learn on the whole subject and try to go up faster in each of us: audio learning curve.

regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Raul, I don't think that the measurement vs listening argument is about accuracy vs tastes. Take for an example an early 70's solid state amplifier. Those amps were made in the height of meter watching. They excel at the measurements that you frequently cite, flat response, low distortion, low output impedance. In spite of exemplary measurements they sound terrible and more to the point they sound nothing like the original performance. So good measurements does not necessarily equal accuracy.

You are correct that the target is to reduce colorations. But colorations (or lack of) cannot be defined by a simple set of measurements, in particular the three you just cited. Otherwise those 70s amps would sound both fantastic and accurate.

Measurements are useful but if we were to make the measurements more important than hearing we would all be listening that lovely 70s technology... well actually most of us would have lost interest and found some other hobby.

I did not propose that the goal of measurements is accuracy. (Although in the determination of platter stability pertinent to belt drive versus direct drive, accuracy of constant rotational speed probably is the goal). For somebody who likes colorations, measurable inaccuracy may be the goal.

For example, Raul cites an audiophile who likes colorations. Raul appears to dislike artificial colorations. It is not my duty or right to tell somebody what they should like. It is conceivable that measurements, graphs and other repeatable and predictive forms of communication could help each of these two audiophiles get what they want.

So, I believe that if a consumer wants pitch stability that is suitable to his personal demands, reliable measurements that describe the differences between the platter rotation of belt drive versus direct drive would help the consumer (and not help turntable manufacturers who don't want to learn and improve).