Schroder sq and the new talea


I heard there was to be a fun time of learning and comparing of these two arms at the rmaf. Since the talea is relatively new, it still has to stand the test of time with comparisons on other tables, other systems and the selective and subjective tastes of discerning audiophiles! There is to be a comparison in one of the rooms at the rmaf this year, which i wasnt able to make. I would be curious to hear some judicial, diplomatic, friendly talk about how they compared to each other in the same system and room. I currently own the origin live silver mk3 with a jan allaerts mc1bmk2 and am enjoying this combo but have become curious about the more popular "superarms" Hats off to both frank and joel.

I hope this thread draws more light rather than heat. If someone preferred one arm over the other it would be OK. With all the variables it doesnt mean that much to me. What matters to me is what it sounds like to me and in my room. With that said...

What was your bias? was it for the schroder or the talea?

cheers!...
vertigo
Dear Cdk84, allow me to - briefly- address a few points in your excellent post.
Furthermore I want to take the opportunity to clarify once and for all 2 misunderstandings.
First, I took - explicit and for good reason ! - the example of that specific gladius made from superior alloy, solely available to and from that celtic-bavarian tribe. I did so ONLY to illustrate the point ( apparently futile ...) of the concept of "inherent quality".
Only this specific version of the gladius and only to illustrate the point.

Roman history in particular and military history in general is my side passion since almost 40 years now. Of course, neither the gladius, nor the light pilum with it’s predetermined breaking point, nor the most versatile roman evolution of the static spartan/makedonian phalanx, nor the Marian reforms, nor the inability of Rome's rivals to form endurable alliances was the solemn reason for Rome's "imperial success". There were other much more important reasons which evolved out of roman inner society, pragmatic modern thinking with a secular sense to reality, certain traumata in their early history and a most astonishing ability of the roman upper class to adapt to changes and of their engineers to assimilate every single smart technical idea they found - wherever they went.
As long as roman society was able to adapt to the changes of time they prevailed - and they (certain circles in the roman patrician families) knew the importance of that ability to change very well.
BTW - the roman gladius is referred to in ancient times (and by the romans themselves ) as the "spanish sword", as it was “found” first among the celtic tribes in Iberia during the punic wars... and thus it had it’s military impact only in conjunction with the large rectangular scutum used by the roman legionary and the very special way of close combat and teamwork in battle.
We can discuss that in length and to my great amusement, but we are already boring our audiophile fellows.

Inherent quality.......
If - I know it is hard for everyone - we can leave aside the aspects (rather: terms..) "price", “market”, “commercial product” and "what you pay for it" for a brief moment, maybe then it becomes clear, that something like an “inherent (product) quality” of a tool (tonearm, longbow, shoe or gladius..) exists.
We all are so "encaged" in our everyday life and surrounded by marketing and price in everything (everyone of us in the “1st” world is confronted with 5-6000 sales and marketing advertisements every day), that it becomes hard to leave that omnipresent sphere even for a moment.
20 years ago I graduated with a master degree in marketing. Cum laude. I know what I am talking about and have learned - and used - the mechanisms and tools of marketing well enough. Knowing the “enemy” inside out opens up the horizon and perspective.
If we can not accept “inherent quality” ( at least as a perspective..) just because it doesn’t necessary shows so on the price tag, we are fooling ourselves.
Dear Nandric, maybe it is more than problematic to draw any line between "value" (which has become a foremost economic term) and "quality" (which today is corrupted by reality too) in the bright light of the day.
Does "value" indeed need a receptor and his/her individual matrix of preferences, likes and dislikes?
If it does, then of course it is and will always be a subjective perspective and thus a futile concept.
But if "value" ( here in a tool or product) can ( and will ...) be recognized beyond preference and sympathy (both always personal and subjective), then it is inherent - i.e. an essence.
REgards,
D.
I meant, dear Nandric, that the Talea and the Schroeder are just tonearms.
Just tonearms, yes. But viewed as tools to reach a higher state of musical enjoyment and all that that may entail for some of us, well that is something more, no?
Dear Dertonarm, We all are, I assume ,familiar with 'concepts' from our education. Thy were somehow always 'split' in two then four, etc: You know: thesis versus antithesis, value in use versus value in exchange,
real estate versus movables,etc.etc. So I may think and
ask: are there also 'extraherent' qualitys or values in objects?
Since Frege we are not searching for the 'meanings' of
words in isolation but only in the context of a sentence
(proposition or statement) with the question regarding the
contribution some word makes to the meaning of the whole sentence. BTW Frege also proposed to treat a 'concept' as a function with one argument and relations
as function with two or more arguments. Well my I ask what
kind of contribution the expression 'inherent' adds to the
meaning of whatever sentence? To my mind the content of such a sentence qua information will be the same without expression 'inherent'. Then there is the objective fact that there are objects wich we know without knowing all their qualitis as well as objects
that are unknown to us. But according to your 'philosophy'
even the unknown objects must have 'inherent values' and
'inherent qualitys'. As I stated before the objects have
qualitys they have independant of us while 'the value' of
any object whatever is dependat on the 'value' we put or
attribute to them. I already mentioned Marx sheep and its
'use value' without mentioning 'value in exchange'. This animal has both (to us)I am sure. Is this sheep entitled to say to a elephant: 'you are a worthless animal'?

Regards,