Lyra Dorian or Lyra Delos cartridge?

Jonathan,
thank you for your detailed and precise explanations. I am a current Delos owner and have been bitten by the Lyra sound. I have previously owned cartidges from rega (Exact) and Dynavector (DV20XH). The Delos is my first LOMC and am enjoying it eminsely. Congratulations on an excellent design. What would be the next logical upgrade in the Lyra line and what Might I expect as trade-in value on my 3 month old cartridge?

03-05-11: Mofimadness
Jonathan Carr is one of the good guys in the industry. He's a straight shooter and tells it like it is. I, for one, appreciate his honesty.

i have to agree with this sentiment. i can't say that i fully understand everything that jonathan carr writes but i think that i understand most of what he writes. to my knowledge, the stuff that he writes tends to add up. in an industry that seems to operate so much on smoke and mirrors, i really appreciate someone who is willing to give you the straight scoop on the tradeoffs that drive his design decisions.

as to the skepticism expressed by elizabeth, my advice is that you should try to understand as much about this stuff as you possibly can - then you can approach this stuff as a more informed consumer. that is a more reliable position than to merely bemoan the presumed questions about the integrity of some dealers.

for my own part, i came across my delos cartridge from sorasound. at the time sorasound had an inventory of zyx cartridges that he was trying to unload but the dealer expressed a high regard for jonathan carr's work. sorasound may still have the inventory of zyx cartridges, so if you're looking for a zyx cartridge at a discount, that would be a good dealer to contact...

Interesting thread, and I'd like to thank you Mr Carr for taking the time to contribute with such detailed and thoughtful replies.

Can I ask a question - can Lyra rebuild/retip their carts.

Dear Miner:

Regarding trade-in value of a new-ish Delos, I honestly don't know, as each distributor sets their own pricing for retail, trade-ins, upgrades, rebuilds etc. The dealer that you bought the Delos from is probably the best person to ask.

Regarding the next step up for you, the quick answer is the Kleos at US$2700. But 3 months with a cartridge that you say you are happy with, and then onto the next one - IMO this is too quick.

Also, compared to the Delos, the Kleos is a lower-output cartridge, which will be more demanding on your phono stage, and it puts more mechanical energy into the tonearm and damps the headshell less, which means a bigger challenge for the tonearm. I don't know what turntable, tonearm or phono stage you are using, but unless they are up to the task, it could be that the Kleos leaves you less satisfied. I recall some Helikon users who upgraded to the Titan, and for them and their audio systems it turned out to be a downgrade, while I've previously pointed out in this thread that some users prefer the Delos over the Kleos in their systems.

If I were you, I'd listen to the Delos more, probably borrow a lower-output cartridge to see how your phono preamp gets along with it, and maybe borrow a lower-compliance cartridge to see how your tonearm likes it. If any of the results suggest that there could be problems or marginal results from the Kleos in your system as it is now, I'd then look into alternative phono stages and/or tonearms which could do better. These wouldn't necessarily need to be new - something like a second-hand Graham 2.2 or Triplanar could be pretty nice.

I believe that an upgraded phono stage or tonearm could be a more effective path for you now than the Kleos, as these would give you a better foundation for performance improvements in the future, regardless of whichever phono cartridge you ultimately decided was the one for you.

It could be a result of my engineering background, but I get a lot of pleasure from figuring out how to squeeze out the absolute maximum performance that I can from my gear. Only when I'm satisfied that I've extracted pretty much everything there is to be had from a component will I think about its replacement.

I'd also suggest that you take your time. Unless you have lots of income to dispose on audio, unhurried, carefully considered decisions are likely to get you farther and give you more ultimate satisfaction (and for less outlay).

I'm not saying that you shouldn't consider a cartridge upgrade, but hopefully I've shown that there are other issues and options that you may want to think about first.

kind regards, jonathan carr

Good points Mr. Carr and I appreciate your honesty. I have nothing too elaborate - a Rega P9 TT (RB1000 arm) and I use the MC phono stage in my McIntosh C2300 preamp which has adjustable loading of 25, 50, 100, 200, 500 and 1000 ohms by use of remote from listening position. Currently I am using 100 ohm loading with my Delos.