Dave Brubeck

Onhwy61, if you think it's jazz, then it's jazz. While the music I brought into this discussion is "definitively" jazz, recently, music from other parts of the world that incorporates our jazz, and possibly our musicians, is more interesting than the music currently originating here, according to my taste.

In the past, all the way up to 1970 maybe, jazz was quite definitive. After that it began to evolve, until today when it's up to the evaluator of the music to determine whether or not it's "really jazz"; otherwise one could argue the point until time ends.

Rok2id, a jazz collection of the artists you have, would be incomplete without Bobby Timmons. He did a lot of work with Blakey, and I'm sure you have tunes composed by him that were done by other artists.

Rok2id,
The following quote is from the same interview with Dave Brubeck that I cited in my earlier post.

Dave Brubeck said, "Look at it this way - the people I respected, Duke Ellington, Benny Goodman uh, Woody Herman, Willie 'the Lion' Smith, Art Tatem, Bud Powell - they all liked what I was doing. Charlie Mingus, Miles Davis, almost all of the guys that really had made it and were experimental people, experimenting, liked what I was doing. So what do I care if some critic doesn't like it? I'd care if Duke Ellington didn't like it."

Onhwy61,
You stated, "To deny Dave Brubeck's importance in jazz history is silly." As we used to say in the 1960s, "Right On".

Rok2id,
With all due respect, I did not miss your point at all. Your point is that you do not care for Dave Brubeck. And you try to buttress your preference by saying that he did not play clubs, so he cannot qualify as a real jazz great, and the reviewers were not crazy about him so that reinforces the opinion you have about him. Personally, I like listening to jazz. My preferences are not influenced by what others say is worth listening to. In any case, regarding the criteria you have put forth for joining the playing field, you are not quite accurate.

For your edification, from this site:

http://www.davebrubeck.com/html/about.php

"The group played in jazz clubs in every major city and toured in package shows with such artists as Duke Ellington, Ella Fitzerald, Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie and Stan Getz. The Dave Brubeck Quartet repeatedly won top honors in trade magazines and critic’s and reader’s polls. In 1954 Dave Brubeck’s portrait appeared on the cover of Time Magazine with a story about the jazz renaissance and Brubeck’s phenomenal ascendancy."

And from this site, from an interview with Dave Brubeck:

http://www.pbs.org/brubeck/talking/daveOnCritics.htm

"SMITH: Uh, huh. You did better with the public in a lot of ways than you did with some of the critics."

"DAVE: Maybe, but we had a lot of critics on our side. I mean all you have to do is go back and read the old Downbeats, Metronomes and reviews and you'll see how many people were behind us."

Well, it's all about image. Brubeck was not born in Mississippi and he did not move to Chicago. And he did not "swing" in the accepted manner. He was brought up on a farm. And he did his own thing. Which does not make him any less great. Just different.

sabai,
It`s clear you have much admiration for Dave Brubeck and that of course is fine. Rok does`nt hold him in the same high regard as you(but he does like him) what`s wrong with that? we all are just engaged in a discussion and expressing our personal thoughts.I don`t rank Brubeck as high as you and you may not rank Dexter Gordon,Sonny Stitt or say Lee Morgan as I do, so what. This is an artform and will be purely subjective. What emotionally moves one person may not move another, that`s to be expected.I have been profoundly influenced by Miles Davis and Charlie Parker, for other jazz fans they may not even like them at all. Another excellent jazz CD, Carmen McRae "Bittersweet" from 1964, just wonderful music.
Regards,