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Trans Fi Salvation direct rim drive turntable

Hi A'goners, I've just bought this turntable, confident it'll be my last upgrade. The rest of my system is a Tom Evans Groove Plus SRX phono stage, EMM Labs CDSA SE cd player, Hovland HP200 pre/Radia power amps, Zu Definitions Mk 4 loudspeakers, so a pretty good way to listen to vinyl.

Over the years, since 1995 I've progressed from a Roksan Xerxes/Artemiz/Shiraz, via a Michell Orbe/SME V/Transfiguration Orpheus, finally ending up last week with my new Trans Fi Salvation/Trans Fi T3Pro Terminator/Zu modded Denon 103.

This turntable (£2500 UK price, approx $4000-$5000 US) is the brainchild of Vic, a retired dentist, who, fed up with the shortcomings of belt drive and traditionally-pivoted tone arms, literally from the ground up devised first the Terminator air bearing linear tracking tone arm (now in T3Pro guise as on my system), and now the direct rim drive Salvation turntable, a technology in direct opposition to the hegemony of belt drive we've come to accept from the '70s.

In summary, he has developed a motor that directly rim drives an oversize platter. The magic is that vibrations are drained away from the platter and hence stylus. So minimal rumble is transmitted, the weakness of Garrards/Lencos in the past. This is mated to a substantial slate plinth which does a great job of isolating the whole rig from external vibrations.

Where this differs from direct drive is that the torque applied is high enough to counteract stylus drag, but it is strictly analogue controlled ie no digital feedback applying constant micro speed control. Speed is set correctly, torque is sufficient, and speed stability is like a rock.

This is combined with his air bearing linear tracking arm, discussed on other threads.

So technical description over, how about how it sounds? Well, years ago I always assumed the overhang in bass when playing lps on my previous belt drive/pivoted arm tts, apparent as a benign artifact, was all part of the 'romance' of vinyl, esp. when compared to the dry, clinical sound of early cd. But in 2007 I acquired the EMM cd, which had a natural analogue sound playing silver discs, but none of this bass colouration. On studying the growing reemergence of idler/direct drive, and their superiority in maintaining speed stability, I agreed that the belt speed instability might be introducing this.

Two years ago I came across Vic, and now I can report that eliminating the belt for high torque rim drive has taken this whole artifact out of the equation. Whole layers of previously masked information like rhythm guitars are now present, treble information has abundant naturalness and decay, and bass, which appears to be less in quantity compared to belt, is actually more accurate with a real start-stop quality, much more like digital, and the real thing. The other positives are more linked to the arm, including uncanny tracking across the whole record side; I'm really not exaggerating in saying that the last few grooves at the end of an lp side are as solidly reproduced as the first. Music with strong dynamic contrasts are really served well by the Salvation, and I am shocked at how good this all is after trepidation that the sound might be hyperdetailed but too assertive etc. In fact music is reproduced with a relaxed incision, and a welcoming detailed transparency.

The amazing thing is that all of this is not in anyway at the expense of the natural warmth and tonal dimensionality that still puts vinyl way ahead of any digital (imho).

The only thing, and Vic would like this to be known, is that his creation is a cottage industry, and he can only produce limited numbers to order.

I'm happy to answer qs on it, as I really want our community to know about a possible world beating product at real world prices. My tech knowledge will be limited, but no problem discussing sound quality issues.

I'm not affiliated in anyway to the product, just sold my Orbe on ebay and bought this. Regards to all
spiritofmusic
richardkrebs
422 posts
 
Thekong.

At the risk of annoying a bunch of people ... I cannot see how a pure magnetic suspended main bearing can provide the necessary loop rigidity. I doubt that it is self compensating like say a captive air bearing, so it is prone to vertical movement. That induced by platter balance and drive issues and yes, stylus acceleration. My experiments with thrust pads has shown that harder always seems to be better. Putting something soft there has a deleterious effect. Mag force follows the inverse square law so it could be argued that it is stable under a varying load. This I doubt.
Happy to be proved wrong.
Sure a mag bearing is quiet but IMO it would compromise one of the fundamental design criteria of a TT. Absolute dynamic dimensional stability between platter surface and arm. It would be very interesting to place a DTI on the platter surface of a mag bearing TT and then apply a small vertical force on the platter. I suspect that the indicator will show vertical movement and possibly bounce.
The LO7D has a quite thin metal disc under its thrust pad. It is inevitable that with the weight of the platter it would deflect microscopically, but there is an adjustable bolt that contacts with the centre of this disc and the chassis. The bolt improves dynamic loop rigidity. If you own one, try loosening it to hear the negative effect of a tiny reduction of loop rigidity. (do this at your own risk!)
It could also be argued that the noise a mechanical bearing makes is evidence of movement. True, but correctly designed and polished they produce extremely low subjective noise levels.
I say all this from a theoretical perspective having not heard a mag bearing TT in suitable conditions. I am happy to defer to the superior knowledge of a mag bearing designer. Feel free to ignore everything I have just said, its just a bit of fun.
thekong
203 posts
 
At the risk of annoying a bunch of people ...

Hi Richard, very true, maybe we should take this offline, but before that, I would like to put in one last point:

It would be very interesting to place a DTI on the platter surface of a mag bearing TT and then apply a small vertical force on the platter. I suspect that the indicator will show vertical movement and possibly bounce.

You may not need a DTI at all! Not sure about their current models, but when a famous TT manufacturer first introduced their magnetic bearing TT, the agent proudly showed me how the platter could go up and down when vertical force was applied. If I remember correctly, the travel was close to, if not more than, 1/8 of an inch! And yes, it bounced a bit!
lewm
13,142 posts
 
One more OT comment: I've played around with the Verdier tt, the grand-daddy of tt's with fully magnetic vertical suspensions. The magnets used are quite huge, as anyone can see by inspection. If you push down on the platter surface, there is quite a lot of resistance to depression. I doubt that a force sufficient to cause deflection of the platter is ever seen during actual use. And of course the horizontal bearing is a standard mechanical type and is quite massive. BUT some who are critics of the Verdier have cited deflection as an issue. We certainly don't want bouncing platters.
dentdog's avatar
dentdog
500 posts
 
Harold (nitb)
Thanks.
Just know that you listened to a lot of vinyl. I was running after kids.
But I saved a lot of vinyl, many early pressings of great artists. I do have a lot to look forward to.
harold-not-the-barrel
895 posts
 
Dear Lewn, Thanks for your very informative answer, now I understand what exactly is the Kenwood maglev: it´s like Clearaudio´s. After my very recent experience I also exactly understand what´s happening in the bearing, both mechanically and sonically. Very rigid link between TA pivot and bearing, despite its "partly" maglev. The maglev takes most of the platter´s weight, but not all. Hard metal tip´s contact to thrust pad is still very solid, so basically it´s a mechanical bearing. Must sound fantastic. Congrats.

However, one can´t stop Evolution as it keeps on going...
The Salvation maglev is an antithesis to any mechanical bearing, as far as I know. And this kinda true maglev quite literally takes the whole idea of TT bearing to higher level. I´m running this kind of a maglev, my implementation is different but the end result, both technically and sonically is basically just the same.
However, I must point out that the heavy Salvation platter compared to my lighter platter gives even more better performance. I fully understand this without having not listened to Vic´s TT.
The answer lies in a very dense & thus strong magnetic field.
This makes platter´s spinning very solid, there´s absolutely no wobbling, even in the microscopic level, I feel for sure after having heard this in my own system. I can assure that I must use much force to apply pressure on the spindle and it certainly does not keep bouching up & down after a push.


Evolution has come to the point that we are facing a new world in Analog Audio. This is as revolutionary as Einstein´s theory of Relativity a hundred years ago. A new idea, a new world. Welcome to 2014´s physics ;)

Oh yes, and astronomers just found gravitational particles. The Universe is much larger than we have known so far `Ö´
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