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Trans Fi Salvation direct rim drive turntable

Hi A'goners, I've just bought this turntable, confident it'll be my last upgrade. The rest of my system is a Tom Evans Groove Plus SRX phono stage, EMM Labs CDSA SE cd player, Hovland HP200 pre/Radia power amps, Zu Definitions Mk 4 loudspeakers, so a pretty good way to listen to vinyl.

Over the years, since 1995 I've progressed from a Roksan Xerxes/Artemiz/Shiraz, via a Michell Orbe/SME V/Transfiguration Orpheus, finally ending up last week with my new Trans Fi Salvation/Trans Fi T3Pro Terminator/Zu modded Denon 103.

This turntable (£2500 UK price, approx $4000-$5000 US) is the brainchild of Vic, a retired dentist, who, fed up with the shortcomings of belt drive and traditionally-pivoted tone arms, literally from the ground up devised first the Terminator air bearing linear tracking tone arm (now in T3Pro guise as on my system), and now the direct rim drive Salvation turntable, a technology in direct opposition to the hegemony of belt drive we've come to accept from the '70s.

In summary, he has developed a motor that directly rim drives an oversize platter. The magic is that vibrations are drained away from the platter and hence stylus. So minimal rumble is transmitted, the weakness of Garrards/Lencos in the past. This is mated to a substantial slate plinth which does a great job of isolating the whole rig from external vibrations.

Where this differs from direct drive is that the torque applied is high enough to counteract stylus drag, but it is strictly analogue controlled ie no digital feedback applying constant micro speed control. Speed is set correctly, torque is sufficient, and speed stability is like a rock.

This is combined with his air bearing linear tracking arm, discussed on other threads.

So technical description over, how about how it sounds? Well, years ago I always assumed the overhang in bass when playing lps on my previous belt drive/pivoted arm tts, apparent as a benign artifact, was all part of the 'romance' of vinyl, esp. when compared to the dry, clinical sound of early cd. But in 2007 I acquired the EMM cd, which had a natural analogue sound playing silver discs, but none of this bass colouration. On studying the growing reemergence of idler/direct drive, and their superiority in maintaining speed stability, I agreed that the belt speed instability might be introducing this.

Two years ago I came across Vic, and now I can report that eliminating the belt for high torque rim drive has taken this whole artifact out of the equation. Whole layers of previously masked information like rhythm guitars are now present, treble information has abundant naturalness and decay, and bass, which appears to be less in quantity compared to belt, is actually more accurate with a real start-stop quality, much more like digital, and the real thing. The other positives are more linked to the arm, including uncanny tracking across the whole record side; I'm really not exaggerating in saying that the last few grooves at the end of an lp side are as solidly reproduced as the first. Music with strong dynamic contrasts are really served well by the Salvation, and I am shocked at how good this all is after trepidation that the sound might be hyperdetailed but too assertive etc. In fact music is reproduced with a relaxed incision, and a welcoming detailed transparency.

The amazing thing is that all of this is not in anyway at the expense of the natural warmth and tonal dimensionality that still puts vinyl way ahead of any digital (imho).

The only thing, and Vic would like this to be known, is that his creation is a cottage industry, and he can only produce limited numbers to order.

I'm happy to answer qs on it, as I really want our community to know about a possible world beating product at real world prices. My tech knowledge will be limited, but no problem discussing sound quality issues.

I'm not affiliated in anyway to the product, just sold my Orbe on ebay and bought this. Regards to all
spiritofmusic
harold-not-the-barrel
895 posts
 
Dear Lewn, J.C. Verdier introduced La Platine 30+ years ago, right ? It´s maglev is basically the same as Vic´s, it´s vastly bigger and the spindle is fatter for a very heavy platter, it´s just a different implementation ? Also Kenwood/Clearaudio type hybrid bearing is available. Fine. We all understand that a perfect magnetically isolated spindle does not exist due to instability of the magnetic field in the horizontal plane.

Now this kind of maglev, both Verdier´s and Vic´s, is a true maglev. The inverted sleeve bearing is oiled, actually that thin oil layer separates the metallic/delrin/nylon surfaces. Please note that the vertical very strong magnetic field takes most of the weight. The spindle is touching its environment very slightly thru oil layer. The tolerances must be very small to achieve extreme smooth spinning though. And the spindle actually does not touch the pushings inside the spindle well, just oil layer. So La Platine started all this ? No wonder why so many Platine owners here in AudiogoN Universe are happy with the maglev as such. Hats off to Monsieur Verdier.
I´m glad you will buy a Salvation ;)
richardkrebs
422 posts
 
Dover.

What?
read my post again.
re LO7D
FYI, The mechanical brake acts on the platter itself.

With the platter removed, the sub platter raises up and contacts the plastic targets I mentioned. This is the apparently locked bearing that both Lew and I observed. The sub platter becomes free to rotate manually by gently pushing down on it.
Who said anything about powering the motor without the platter attached?

What the designers did with this TT is very cool indeed.
spiritofmusic OP
828 posts
 
I'm back in the room, boys! Well, for Salvation/Terminator to even be mentioned in the same breath as the L07D, it must be doing SOMETHING right.
As you all know, I'm no tech head, just just trying to interpret what Vic has said to me face to face, and via his website.
The magnetic bearing is bringing an interesting quality, which was initially frustrating, but now I realise is a major advantage - literally song to song on the same lp I can perceive different ambience/recording quality, more so than any other lp spinner I've auditioned. First of all I hated this, but as I realised this was a function of greater detail resolution, and just as importantly, reduction of colouration from the tt imparting itself, I can really concur w/Harold that the tt/arm is a true "time machine" to transport y/self and (my summing up) "open window" to listen thru.
dover
2,262 posts
 
Lewm/Thekong
Following your interest in the Verdier, I pulled one out of the cupboard and set it up over the weekend for a quick listen. It is about 2 yrs old - so current version. It has the black lacquered base and arm boards.

Lewm, before you ask "have you really" - here is a photo for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogRZSjnyhas

The Verdier bearing is a conventional sleeved bearing in the horizontal plane and magnetic in the vertical plane. The ball and thrust pad is supplied as standard with the deck but the use of the ball & thrust pad is optional. If you install the ball & thrust pad the height of the bearing shaft is adjustable from under the TT so that the ball is only just touching and most of the weight is still borne by the magnetic bearing.

I mounted an Audiomods arm and Goldring moving coil (was mounted on Technics DD )on the Verdier for an interim listen. The Verdier was a considerable level of performance above the SME20/SMEV/Lyra combination we had side by side for comparison. The Verdier had more punch, lower noise floor, better dynamics, better timing and was more transparent.
It is quite impressive that the magnets support such a heavy platter. There is residual vertical movement in the platter if you press down but it is quite stiff.
At some stage I will transfer the SME V/Lyra onto the Verdier for a direct comparison and try the ball & thrust pad again.

On an earlier Verdier I preferred the ball in situ - more high frequency extension more grounded and better timing. The earlier Verdier that I had listened to had rigid feet whereas the current has sprung feet.

My only criticism of the Verdier is the plinth and armloads are pretty mickey mouse - they appear to be painted mdf and very lightweight.

The Verdier motor has settings for rubber belt and thread drive. The rubber belt supplied is about 3/16" thick, round profile, and I was disturbed by it's propensity to vibrate, no matter how I tensioned the belt. However it still sounded ok, much better than the SME20 but not up to the Final Audio VTT-1 that I normally run.


lewm
13,265 posts
 
Re your criticism of the Verdier: That's what I have heard too, from users. The platter and magnets are a bit too massive for the "plinth", which is really just a flat piece of either MDF or granite. (I thought granite, but you've got one so you should know.) That coupled with the spongy feet causes the structure to be unstable; it wants to tip to one side or another and the rotation of the massive platter acts like a gyroscope. This should have been an easy issue to correct; substitute spongy feet for solid feet or pneumatic ones with a low resonant frequency and increase the mass of the lower structure to move the center of gravity closer to the shelf. But Mr Verdier is a traditionalist, to say the least.
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