Is a vinyl rig only worth it for oldies?

I tend to agree with Raul's latest stated position on both digital and vinyl.

DIgital signal processing is much more flexible and accurate in general than analog. I doubt anybody familiar with both technologies in detail could dispute that? CD redbook specifically was a compromise format but one that was well thought out and is now quite mature and very well executed for the most part these days. The potential for digital audio is wide open from a technology perspective. What happens will mostly be determined by the usually open market business drivers as determined by what people want and are willing to pay for.

On the other hand, the 331/3 vinyl format may have some untapped potential still as well that can be realized still by modern technology, but most of what occurs here will be quite expensive and not to far removed from a laboratory experiment in terms of complexity and cost and is not likely to find a wide market, especially as digital continues to evolve.

HEy, look, I'm an old time vinyl record playing lover, but the facts are facts. Some things continue to progress due to the value proposition and some do not. BEtween digital and vinyl, guess which one will continue to progress in a manner that works well for most? In many cases, the gap has already been closed between 331/3 vinyl and digital and digital is obviously continuing to move ahead at warp speed while vinyl is barely moving on the grand scale of things.

Hi Mapman, I can't agree with you on the 'laboratory experiment' comment. We have a cutting lathe that we set up with the stock electronics, then we substituted a variety of amplifiers and did the same cut with each of them.

You can take that lacquer and thus hear the difference between the amps on any system. We are now using our own amps that we modified for this purpose (the mods were only to make the amplifier easier to use with the cutter and were very slight).

It was easy! And also an advancement- we now have the world's first transformer-less vacuum tube cutting system.

If you were to talk to Acoustic Sounds, you would find that they have found a variety of ways to improve the pressing machines as well. These are all easy changes, the only reason you don't see more people doing them at various plants is that they are too busy to take the gear out of service!

Hi Ralph,

Glad you responded. I was thinking of this very initiative that you have mentioned prior.

A laboratory, whatever it's actual form, is wherever innovation takes place. That is what it seems to me you are doing in attempting to push the edge of what is possible with vinyl and I can easily see how it would well be successful.

The next step is to take a product to market and watch the market grow.

I think there is a niche market still obviously for new and better vinyl recordings and gear capable of playing it. It may well transition out of the "laboratory" stage and become a success. I truly hope it does, and might even set the benchmark for the immediate future sound quality wise in some regards, but there is no chance of vinyl winning the race over the long term, right?

Obviously its up to the OP who wondered and others to determine in the end for themselves whether a vinyl rig is worth it to them or not for new things in addition to for oldies.....

but there is no chance of vinyl winning the race over the long term, right?

Not sure about that, and right now, I'm not sure that the major labels think that either. I think they are tired of putting out CDs and then not being able to sell their stock as the download thing has really hurt them. So they have been turning to LPs as something they can sell that has a little more immunity. Its funny, in 1985 most of the labels were saying that they would be done doing vinyl by 1987; here we are 25 years later...

So as a result finding music on vinyl these days is the easiest its been in years. BTW 1993 was the year of the least vinyl production.

Now if they can come up with a digital format that denies duplication we might see digital experience a resurgence. But right now the LP industry is a growth industry and any player in it has as much work as they can handle.

I had arguably the best digital system made (Stahltek, $72,000) in our room at RMAF. The designer was there. I played him a cut on both the digital (192KHz 24-bit) and LP. He simply turned to me and said 'Digital has such a long way to go...' He was not mad- he loves analog, and I think its that pragmatic approach that is why he makes the best digital.

Ralph (Atmasphere) and other vinyl lovers -- a couple of comments and Qs:

I've been an audiophile hobbyist since my late teens back in the early 70s. I'm almost 60 yrs old now. I mention all this because I started with vinyl; pretty much the only game in town in the 70s unless you were a real-to-real-head.

Over the years, I've put together a rig that gives me a lot of pleasure. My systenm has both "redbook" CD and vinyl source inputs. Foundation now set for my comments and Qs.

The comments: As regards my CD source input, I've picked up some discs over the years that are very nice sounding. Some digital recordings from unexpected places and not so well recognized labels too. More dogs than diamonds I'm sorry to say. I attribute this more to the recording quality than the CD format.

As regards vinyl, similar comments. Some gems; some dogs. But . . . last night, I received in the mail an LP just purchased off the "Gon" -- Leopold Stokowoski conducting the London Philharmonic Orchestra, playing Stravinsky's Firebird Suite plus other goodies like Tchaikovsky's Marche Slave and Mussorgsky's Night on Bald Mountain (London Phase 4 Stereo SPC 21026). WOW!! WOW!! and one more time -- WOOWW!!

I closed my eyes and was there in front of the orchestra. Could even sense concert hall LF resonances that I could literally feel in my gut. There's was a certain life and energy to the music that I rarely if ever took away from a CD, even though I've come across some digital gems here and there.

I have other London Phase 4 and ffrr recordings that do great justice to the music too -- but not like the LP mentioned above. My bottom line thought is that I really like the vinyl medium. I find it very involving -- starting with pulling the LP out of the jacket and then reading the inner sleeve comments while listening to the music.

Yes . . . , I like my CD set up too and have no intention of tossing it in favor of vinyl or some other so called super hi-rez "niche" digital formats. And I'm just too old to start exploring computer based formats. Having said all of that, I still love my vinyl rig and would like to source more predictable, less risk high quality labels (vintage or new).

The Qs: Ralph, have you commercialized your LP set-up and if so, where can one purchase your recordings. Also, to avoid a lot of the risk and uncertainty when looking to buy quality LP recordings, is there any information source or web site where I can buy LPs (used or new) of top quality?

Thanks and regards,

Bruce (bifwynne)