2. analog
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Is a vinyl rig only worth it for oldies?

I have always been curious about vinyl and its touted superiority over digital, so I decided to try it for myself. Over the course of the past several years I bought a few turntables, phono stages, and a bunch of new albums. They sounded fine I thought, but didn't stomp all over digital like some would tend to believe.

It wasn't until I popped on some old disk that I picked up used from a garage sale somewhere that I heard what vinyl was really about: it was the smoothest, most organic, and 3d sound that ever came out of my speakers. I had never heard anything quite like it. All of the digital I had, no matter how high the resolution, did not really come close to approaching that type of sound.

Out of the handful of albums I have from the 70s-80s, most of them have this type of sound. Problem is, most of my music and preferences are new releases (not necessarily in an audiophile genre) or stuff from the past decade and these albums sounded like music from a CD player but with the added noise, pops, clicks, higher price, and inconveniences inherent with vinyl. Of all the new albums I bought recently, only two sounded like they were mastered in the analog domain.

It seems that almost anything released after the 2000's (except audiophile reissues) sounded like music from a CD player of some sort, only worse due to the added noise making the CD version superior. I have experienced this on a variety of turntables, and this was even true in a friend's setup with a high end TT/cart.

So my question is, is vinyl only good for older pre-80s music when mastering was still analog and not all digital?
solman989
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,465 posts
 
At Capital Audio Fest, I got to finally hear high end Atmasphere amps driving the Classic Audio field coil speakers, which has been on my to do list for a long time. Two Words: very nice!

Everything I heard was sourced from vinyl, mostly acoustic music. What was there not to like? Nothing really.

I also heard the high end Tidal system sourced from a music server. Tidal gets a lot of buzz on this site so I had to hear!

Similar music types playing there.

What was there not to like? Nothing.

The two sounded as different as night and day. Room acoustics were different but not radically so.

SO what accounts for how two high end rigs could both sound so good yet so different?

I'll attribute to each doing a good job and choosing their distortions wisely.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,958 posts
 
I'm sorry Raul, maybe its a language thing. I think I stated it several times in this thread but let's be clear:

1) Make a good recording; a good master tape
2) release it on LP and CD
3) compare what you hear to the master tape

Now you should know that there is a 'test' of some sort that is part of the LP or CD release process. This 'test' (as in 'test pressing') is used to see how well the ***LP PLAYBACK*** is able to meet the sound of the master tape!

I emphasized the words 'LP playback' to prevent further misunderstanding.

I have to assume that you must have at least one test pressing somewhere in your collection... if not its something to work on. Test pressings are the first off of the stamper and so can sound better.

Anyway, if the test is approved then the mass production begins. Having been through this process a number of times (and mind you, I am not talking about listening to the lathe cut, instead we are talking about playback of an actual LP) I can tell you that unequivocally, the LP is:

1) not distorted, rather it should sound nearly identical to the master tape and
2) it will have better bass than the digital as well as smoother, more detailed and more dimensional highs.

So I am indeed talking about **playback**! If you are not experiencing the same advantages of vinyl, then adjustment or upgrading of your playback apparatus is indicated.
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rauliruegas
13,106 posts
 
Dear Atmasphere: Got it and yes I own some test pressing samples that normally is not what any customer get.

Truer to the recording, this is my point. Which alternative is truer to the recording: digital or LP analog?
what mean I?:

an even comparison IMHO must be do it on the natural field of each alternative, this is ( for example. ). playback a DVDA against not an analog master tape but against the digital master tape and then the LP playback against the analog master tape. Don't you think?, apples against apples.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,958 posts
 
It does not matter the master tape. You will find the LP to be the truer playback. If you spend some time in a recording studio you run into these comparisons all the time.

For example, we always record analog with a 24-bit digital backup. The analog tape of course sounds a lot better regardless of the digital recording means. What is interesting though is that the production LP made from the analog tape *also* sounds better than the digital master! If we cut the LP from a digital master it takes on many of the qualities of the CD, although the LP will usually still sound better even though they have the same digital master tape.

If you have ever produced a CD, the biggest degradation occurs between the master tape and the production CD. There is less degradation with the LP. So it should be no surprise that the LP can sound better even though the master tape is digital!

Digital just can't win in its present state. I am hopeful that it will get there, but mostly what I see from digital is a dive to the bottom- mp3s being a great example. But before that the WAV files were a pretty good example too.

IOW, the LP is truer to the recording in all cases.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,465 posts
 
Isn't the assumption that "sounds better" which is totally subjective is not the same as "more accurate" to the recording in this case?

I think it has been acknowledged that something can sound better and not necessarily be more accurate.

Also specific ideal test scenarios, whatever the outcome, do not determine what occurs in the real world. They are interesting from an R&D perspective but until that is translated into a viable commercial product, it may not matter to most.
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