Brinkmann vs TW Acustic


Was wondering how these two German manufacturers compare.
Bardo vs Raven One
Oasis vs Raven GT
LaGrange vs Raven AC
Is there a unique sound signature that goes up with the range? Which is a better value? (i.e. maybe the Oasis is better than the Raven AC)
Have heard both in show conditions, but could not pin-point their contribution to the end result as the rest of the system was unfamiliar as well.
iaxelrod
Speaking as a Raven One user, I do not feel the Brinkmann is any less well made. Indeed, I’ve often admired the manufacturing quality of their product and tend to see them as a reference for good manufacturing.

One of the items that has emerged from the discussion which I suppose relates to all turntables to a greater or lesser degree is neutrality.
What should one consider to be the design properties of a neutral turntable?

Since we appear to have been focussing on them, the Raven/s consists of -
- Heavy, essentially non-resonant chassis, comprising polymer/metallic components.
- Heavy, inert, sonically dead platter, closely matching the impedance of vinyl.
- Large, closely toleranced main bearing made to within 10 microns or so.
- Unsuspended construction which “grounds” any internal vibration (albeit, typically of unsuspended, allowing ingress in the opposite direction…)
- Speed stability which is relatively beyond reproach.

Given these characteristics, one wonders if neutrality is as questionable as has been suggested if indeed the above factors are important/relevant in achieving the ideal of Neutrality?
(Which returns me to my original question – what are the salient mechanical properties of a neutral turntable?)
I would have thought tonearms would offer a great deal more opportunity for colouration and resonance than an inert platform?
Indeed I would suggest that such construction offers the chance to hear the differences between those tonearms and the discovery of where their unique resonances lie?
Better a well damped design than to have metallic resonances circulating around a suspended closed loop with nowhere to go?
Just to put things in perspective I am also an avid fan of what the Acutus does (pardon the pun) but it is one of the most expensive suspended T/Ts around so I would demand exemplary performance for such a price. The Acutus has its own ways of managing resonance. Even at its price point it is hard to beat but no turntable is perfect.

Turntable choice is and always will be a personal one. All turntables sound different. Each turntable accessorised differently will sound different again. Good examples of perception changing accessorisation consists of supports and platter mats. Platter mats e.g. Ringmat vs Achromat, are capable of changing the sound of a turntable from Dr Jekyll into Mr Hyde (which is which will depend on your preference). 2 radically different sounds from radically different mats – undamped vs damped.
50% might buy a turntable with one but not the other.

I should also give Stillpoints a mention. Several years ago I discussed the usage with the Company and they defended the rules of use i.e. loosely not tightly screwed to the underbody of the turntable. Odd but true. The object is to use the screw as an additional form of decoupling. IMO the greater the overlapping area the more energy gets sunk (or sourced). Once weight is applied to the thread (reportedly) it locks and does not micro-rock. For this reason I tend to see Stillpoints simply as a multi-stage minimum-coupling mechanism. 3 stillpoints must be better than 4.
Kind regards,
Dev,I can buy a BN anytime i want just don't have the room,just got BN 3 motor unit upgrade ,Please my money is none of your business.Keep on trucking.
wrm57, I agree that it looks like TW owner are rather defensive. Unfortunately, you have to look at who is doing the bashing as well. So far Syntax said that he heard BN at a dealer in a system which he is probably not all that familiar with and somehow managed to pinpoint exactly that the fault of that system is with the turntable. I don't recall his background and his other exposure to TW but this does not give me much confidence to think that he knows what he is talking about.

He still cannot justify or explain the difference in calibration method, Timeline vs Kab strobe and how relevant that difference would be. It kinds of remind me a story of a guy who drived a Toyota everyday to work in a bumper to bumper traffic at 10 mph. One day, his rich uncle gave him a Ferrari which he drove to work in the same bumper to bumper traffic at 10 mph. At work, he proclaimed to his colleague, Ferrari is so much better, it can go 200 mph easily and he made it to work in half the time it would take him in his old Toyota.

Syntax also has the habit of jibing at products that he does not seem to have much knowledge about just because he thinks he can get away with it. Not too long ago, his comment regarding Minus-K just left me wonder if this guy is for real!
Philb7777,

As for the bearing. My Raven AC was one of the earlier units. The bearing was convex on top. Similar to the BN. So is my BN. I think the diameter might be different. Both Dead quiet. Maybe 10 years ago there was a different type of bearing. But as the Phantom had a 1,2 Supreme and upgrades within the designation of each TW has done upgrades as parts have changed availability. This is the same in any industry. I also know that as items are in the market over time feedback will lead to design changes and upgrades. Also manufacturing will evolve as demand changes. A good company will work as such.
Dev,

To answer your question about the motor controller. The Raven 1 had a different style motor controller with a flip switch. Then came the upgraded controller that many people purchased including myself. More elegant and a bit better sonically. Those are the only 2 I know of of the non battery varient. I know the buttons have changed due to changes in availability but nothing major.

As for the original battery PS mine needed to be upgraded as my batteries would no longer hold charge for more than 4 hours. I had my BN for 3-4 years. They were 6 hours originally.

Dev,

You purchased a second hand unit. And had no direct dealer support. Not from Jeff and not from TW. So your batteries were already old. Anyhow, I changed my batteries but at the same time changed the board. I heard a notable improvement and tested it on my Spectrum Analyzer. It was spot on 33.33. Sound was impressive. I decided to do a battery run down test. Next day it is still going. Finally I did it again. Same thing about 20 hours (I think). I emailed TW about all. His simple interchange is yes, batteries last much longer. Which is excellent. I then said it sounds better. He then answers, he learned a few new things. Enough said.

To Answer Your other questions and get everything in context,

I bought my table from TW directly. Been to his house. Heard his system : Amazing Cessaro Horns system that reveals everything. Wow. Saw his office, factory you name it. He has some customers with high end systems that are beyond anything that you would see on Audiogon. Massive horn systems, top of the line dynamic speakers. He knows how his turntable sounds by listening to it in multiple environments with purpose built state of the art systems.

This was several years ago, but years after I purchased the turntable. I went to the Munich Audio Show and visited TW, and did some sight seeing in Europe and visited my other halfs family in Holland which was very close to TW's office.