Brinkmann vs TW Acustic


Was wondering how these two German manufacturers compare.
Bardo vs Raven One
Oasis vs Raven GT
LaGrange vs Raven AC
Is there a unique sound signature that goes up with the range? Which is a better value? (i.e. maybe the Oasis is better than the Raven AC)
Have heard both in show conditions, but could not pin-point their contribution to the end result as the rest of the system was unfamiliar as well.
iaxelrod
Wrm57,
What I see are a volume of attacks by Syntax,Dev and others in every thread that mentions TW.
As Dev has mentioned ,his current system is far from his first and I would think Syntax had other components prior to his current listing,Yet they do not bash,knock ,downgrade these other components that they have moved on from.
I'm not writing to defend TW although I do own the GT and 10.5.and they certainly dont need my defense.
Please re-read Dgad's 04-15 post it just about sums it up but I still wonder what is Syntax and others real objective.
I'm sure its not to save us from the horrors of a great turntable

I think both Raul and Dev are right too in their assessments. And I agree no product is perfect and if there was one and we could afford it, everyone would own it.

Onee thing that strikes me from Dev's post is the noisy bearing in some TW models with the 'old bearing.' I purchased my TW AC-1 about a year ago and I've noticed two different looking bearings on internet pictures. Ones with a 'flat-top' bearing and ones with a slightly convex top to the bearing. I have the slight convex-top bearing and the housing at its end (inside platter) has a slight concave shape to it.

This bearing is exceedingly quiet so I am assuming its the new bearing and housing. It is so much more quiet than the VPI Aries 3 bearing/table I had.

A refinement of improvement as the product evolves.
Speaking as a Raven One user, I do not feel the Brinkmann is any less well made. Indeed, I’ve often admired the manufacturing quality of their product and tend to see them as a reference for good manufacturing.

One of the items that has emerged from the discussion which I suppose relates to all turntables to a greater or lesser degree is neutrality.
What should one consider to be the design properties of a neutral turntable?

Since we appear to have been focussing on them, the Raven/s consists of -
- Heavy, essentially non-resonant chassis, comprising polymer/metallic components.
- Heavy, inert, sonically dead platter, closely matching the impedance of vinyl.
- Large, closely toleranced main bearing made to within 10 microns or so.
- Unsuspended construction which “grounds” any internal vibration (albeit, typically of unsuspended, allowing ingress in the opposite direction…)
- Speed stability which is relatively beyond reproach.

Given these characteristics, one wonders if neutrality is as questionable as has been suggested if indeed the above factors are important/relevant in achieving the ideal of Neutrality?
(Which returns me to my original question – what are the salient mechanical properties of a neutral turntable?)
I would have thought tonearms would offer a great deal more opportunity for colouration and resonance than an inert platform?
Indeed I would suggest that such construction offers the chance to hear the differences between those tonearms and the discovery of where their unique resonances lie?
Better a well damped design than to have metallic resonances circulating around a suspended closed loop with nowhere to go?
Just to put things in perspective I am also an avid fan of what the Acutus does (pardon the pun) but it is one of the most expensive suspended T/Ts around so I would demand exemplary performance for such a price. The Acutus has its own ways of managing resonance. Even at its price point it is hard to beat but no turntable is perfect.

Turntable choice is and always will be a personal one. All turntables sound different. Each turntable accessorised differently will sound different again. Good examples of perception changing accessorisation consists of supports and platter mats. Platter mats e.g. Ringmat vs Achromat, are capable of changing the sound of a turntable from Dr Jekyll into Mr Hyde (which is which will depend on your preference). 2 radically different sounds from radically different mats – undamped vs damped.
50% might buy a turntable with one but not the other.

I should also give Stillpoints a mention. Several years ago I discussed the usage with the Company and they defended the rules of use i.e. loosely not tightly screwed to the underbody of the turntable. Odd but true. The object is to use the screw as an additional form of decoupling. IMO the greater the overlapping area the more energy gets sunk (or sourced). Once weight is applied to the thread (reportedly) it locks and does not micro-rock. For this reason I tend to see Stillpoints simply as a multi-stage minimum-coupling mechanism. 3 stillpoints must be better than 4.
Kind regards,
Dev,I can buy a BN anytime i want just don't have the room,just got BN 3 motor unit upgrade ,Please my money is none of your business.Keep on trucking.
wrm57, I agree that it looks like TW owner are rather defensive. Unfortunately, you have to look at who is doing the bashing as well. So far Syntax said that he heard BN at a dealer in a system which he is probably not all that familiar with and somehow managed to pinpoint exactly that the fault of that system is with the turntable. I don't recall his background and his other exposure to TW but this does not give me much confidence to think that he knows what he is talking about.

He still cannot justify or explain the difference in calibration method, Timeline vs Kab strobe and how relevant that difference would be. It kinds of remind me a story of a guy who drived a Toyota everyday to work in a bumper to bumper traffic at 10 mph. One day, his rich uncle gave him a Ferrari which he drove to work in the same bumper to bumper traffic at 10 mph. At work, he proclaimed to his colleague, Ferrari is so much better, it can go 200 mph easily and he made it to work in half the time it would take him in his old Toyota.

Syntax also has the habit of jibing at products that he does not seem to have much knowledge about just because he thinks he can get away with it. Not too long ago, his comment regarding Minus-K just left me wonder if this guy is for real!