a great take on big$ cables

OK Boa, I'll do it slow -

Serus - Long litany on why DBT is worthless, particularly when you can only remember sound criteria for about 5-10 seconds. If a $99 boombox is allegedly going to sound as good as a he-man rig as he assets, then cables / cords should be a infintessimally small change.

Evita's wife is a power and I/C critic - "Try making that argument fly with my wife. Claims to hear significant differences between cables and cords. What a fool, huh?"

OK, if you can only remember what something sounds like for 5-10 seconds, and can be fooled by a $99 boombox, then the way you can tell significant differences in cables and cords is??? So why not use DBT to prove to yourself at least that what you're hearing is a figment of your imagination.

So why not use DBT to prove to yourself at least that what you're hearing is a figment of your imagination.

Because DBT's are not my standard for satisfaction. Listening is. And if I'm pleased with the results of a tube change, a cable upgrade, or driving a car that rides a little rougher than you prefer, why on earth should you care? If my happiness is delusional, so be it.

Snofun I agree. If cables make as much difference as some people claim, it should be easy to pass a DBT or ABX test, right?

DBT and ABX are standard methods applied in many fields. Why is it in audio that the tests and methodology are deemed flawed if shown that differences can't be detected?

DBT/ABX IS the proof, but it has always disproven as far as I know.

It always ends up that something in the chain "wasn't good enough to reveal the differences", if only the power was conditioned, if only the speakers were better, if only the room acoustics were just right, if only the planets were aligned...if, if, if...

Snofun3: My claim is very simple. Since the method proposed (i.e. DBT) is worthless (and there is lots of scientific data that says that is true) for determining audible differences (whether they exist or not) then my proposal is to make a judgement based on long-term listening. The goal is to enjoy the music, so test equipment is marginally relevant (how do you test joy?!)
So, at least I have a proposal, rather than say it's all BS, even though many of us believe they have more joy with certain components.
You can say that you don't agree, and instruments are the only thing that counts, despite their faults. Then you'll say NO and I'll say YES and we'll go on (theoretically) forever. In that case it becomes a "religious" discussion rather than a logical one.
The other option is for you to have an alternative proposal, so we can discuss it.
Or just buy a boombox. They're fine for making noise in the street, but I still say that you (and I) won't tell the difference between that boombox and a Krell with Wilson speakers - not in a DBT...

Serus, I don't understand - not (just) trying to be argumentative.

The article points out how they had a box where they could go back-and-forth on cables to determine whether the differences were indeed perceptable. Much like when you go to a stereo shop and they give you a button to A/B speakers with. You don't need 5-10 seconds of audio memory as the changes are virtually real-time. And if you can or can't tell a statistically relevant change then??

And if you have to know what you're listening to to know how it sounds (boombox vs. Krell/Wilson), then all of the review is a fallacy, no?

I see tests in the Mags, where "this speaker had a better bottom end than that one, but the other imaged better etc" - and this is from NOTES!

Look, I've changed power cords and perceived great differences. Then I had a friend do the old DBT, and couldn't predictably tell which was which. I've had the same experience with I/C's, but here could use two sets of inputs on the preamp to be able to go back and forth, and again, suddenly the difference was, errr, let's say, much less perceptible.

That's why I get a good chuckle when someone gets all gooey about his latest audio ephiphany on one hand, but gets real defensive about DBT on the other. The old Emperor has no clothes situation to me.