I am sick of cables

Dave_b - I just wasn't sure if you compared them A-B in the same system. Like with any product there are some very good bargains but there is a correlation (unfortunately exponential) between price and quality (transparency, clarity etc). I don't have extended experience with cables but I tend to agree with Bradleyc that people often use cheap cables to fix certain system deficiencies (calling it synergy) while neutral transparent cables that "disappear" are more expensive. Cables are non-perishable (don't wear out or age) and therefore deserve a little more investment. As it is right now in my system it would make sense to sell IC (AZ Absolute) and get better speakers - but I will buy them eventually anyway.

How can one tell when a cable "disappears"?

Does that mean if I substitute another cable and the sound is the same, that they both disappear? That would seem to make sense if "disappear" means do nothing to change the sound.

But I was under the impression that different high end cables sound different as well. Does that mean that they might not always disappear either?

Personally, I have never heard two ICs that sound the same on my system, so I have to believe that none of them truly disappear.

It is easier and more practical to determine the effect a particular IC has in a particular system versus another one, like any other system component. I feel more able to do this and determine the right "synergy" that sounds best to me than I would to be able to determine that a particular cable "disappears".

A system is the sum of its parts (including room and the ears listening) anyway, so what difference does it make if something does dissapear or not? THe rest of the system is not going to. SO in the end I do believe it is the overall "synergy" that counts.

Its like making soup. The right combo of ingredients works to make good soup. A bad combo will not work as well. Even so, some may still like the soup and others not.

Mapman -- Excellent thoughtful post.

Some of you may be interested in the following, written by the late distinguished speaker designer and manufacturer John Dunlavy.

http://www.verber.com/mark/ce/cables.html

Towards the end of this post, he describes controlled experiments he performed in which audiophiles visiting his studio were asked to compare the sound of various cables to zip cord. Invariably "the largest and sexiest looking cable always scored best - even though the CABLES WERE NEVER CHANGED and they listened to the ZIP Cord the entire time."

Regards,
-- Al

I owmed a pair of Dunlavy SC-V speakers (my first high end speakers). To be fair, I think Mr. Dunlavy's experiment was padded, given that the only variable was the individuals own psychology and bias. Everything makes a difference and all of it has a worth best determined by it's owner:)

In regard to people hearing differences in a false double blind test.

There is no doubt the placebo effect affects some people some of the time. However, in the long term, those taking the placebo may suffer needlessly, just as the guy listening to the inferior cable will. Another reason double blind testing doesn't work in audio is, what constitutes an objectively agreed upon sonic preference amongst the experimental group. It is impossible to ojectively quantify changes to a subjectively defined model. We only have our sonic preferences to judge by, the sound of live music is not reproducable on audio systems to this point. Until it is, we cannote have an objective experimental group (audio system).

I've never understood the objective argument amongst audiophiles, empirical evidence, even if subjective and anecdotal, is much more valuable to me. If someone prefers cable A to cable B, who am I to say he doesn't hear cable A as preferable. Cable A may be more or less expensive, either way, it doesn't involve me, why should I care.

Objectivity and/or measurements only tell some of the story, often, we don't even know how measurements correlate to certain sonic attributes.

In the end, I guess it shouldn't matter to us whether someone prefers ultra expensive or inexpensive cables, whatever floats their boat makes them happy, that should be enough.