Movie Software make HT a Waste of Resources?

HT is the target. You made several of my points for me. Thanks! :) HT does not need to be upgraded (as I stated before) if people would think about it. Congratulations on your apparent ability not to buy into the marketeting propaganda. But since apparently most Americans live their lives on Marketing Autopilot, the Marketers drag them by the ring through their collective noses. Hard evidence: The market place puts next to no value on the used processors. If people really valued the equipment they would get a buck or two for their used stuff. You almost can not give the stuff away. The HT market is based on trashing equipment constantly and that is very seriously bad for the pocketbooks of the consumer and the environment (you know....The Environment, that place that SUV commercials say you travel to in your SUV rather than the place where you live. Since you travel to it in the SUV way-of-thinking you can afford to mess it up. The Environment is where you live regardless of what the Ford Expedition commercials say). And maybe more importantly, the HT wasteful cycle is a horrible consumer model to be teaching our children.

HT is a one-way street with hollywood as the traffic cop of ideas if we allow it to consume time that we could dedicate to expanding our collective awareness.

Not believing improvements in communication, even with its downsides, as not needed is not a option. So routers are a necessary evil. HT as a prisoner of our time and wasteful consumer model is not.

The response I am looking for is like the one I think the citizens of Atlanta (see above) wish they would have had. Question the assumptions and think about the consequences (examples are littered throughout this thread)of anything we do as a society before the options are gone.

So that I can also win a few votes: I think that Audiogon members contain the greatest concentration of this worlds last hope for a tomorrow that have ever walked the face of this planet or all the collective planets of at least our 3 nearest galaxies. We have to be pretty smart to afford all this stuff. Right. Well, ok....maybe some of us are just sneaky

Least I forget, here is the good-will saying for this hour: May all things wonderful and blissful carry you and everyone you touch for the rest of your life!:)

Is there a point to this?

Nanderson, you seem to shift topics everytime someone tries to pin you down. The common part of this thread, as I see it, is that you want to think your keen intellect has forced another cave-dweller into the light of self-introspection. It hasn't and it won't.

In fairness, I will admit that the readability of the thread was not enhanced by the fact that, due presumably to some quirk of people's election to go with in-line HTML or whatever, the fonts seemed to get larger and more colorful with each successive reply. Its hard to read when only two words fit on a line. Esp. when they are violet.

I think your original point was that most modern movies are bad/unwatchable. As with anything, there's a lot of drivel targeted at the lowest common denominator and some good quality stuff around the edges. I like the escapism of movies (even some of the drivel), and find that movies--like books or music--can generate some interesting conversation among friends. Do I need the latest greatest HT to enjoy movies? No. Does HT enhance my enjoyment of movies? Sure.

You then morph into the argument that HT is bad b/c of changing standards/planned obsolesence. Audio has its "flavor of the day" aspects too--CD, HDCD, DVD-A, SACD, MP3 and various sub-religions in component design. Why single out HT for criticism? Given that these marketing tricks also produce design advances, is the purist thing to do to listen to wax impressions on a gramophone or something? No thanks.

I'll skip the stuff about routers. Don't know, don't care.

Then, if I track correctly, the argument seems to go to the "unexamined life not being worth living" with some paranoid conspiracy theory stuff thrown in to boot. The defect seems to be you've lumped A'gon users into a class of people whose lives consist of slaving away for the man to buy the next fix in HT equipment, while blithely ignoring the world's real problems, in order to isolate/insulate ourselves. Bollocks. I remember an A'gon threat where people talked about their other interests--there are every variety of people here, from artists to race car drivers, to kayakers, to parents, etc.

In other words, don't stereotype me or us. I happen to like my HT and some movies made after Citizen Kane. As to the rest of my life, my compromises are different than yours. I'll go as far as saying I think mine are a *better* balance than yours, without knowing or caring what yours are. Guess you think yours are a better balance than mine, without knowing or caring what mine are.

So? Next topic please. Really.

Thanks for the complements! I appreciate it. To my knowledge no one has pinned me down except on diverted issues. If so, let me know about it. My original thought that it makes little sense to buy a ferrari if all you have is kerosene to run it. The next natural step in the insanity of HT is how useless the hardware is after a few years of manufacturers playing around with you. If you like to see $5000 turn into less than $1000 in less than a 6 years I guess for your balance of priorities is fine for you but not for me. I have no problem with Sony and Philipps/Pioneer going in the red over hi-end formats like SACD/DVD-Audio that audiophiles have yet to be hoodwinked into buying till the dust settles. I just wonder why the manufacturers have been so successful at the same format game with HT. Regarding conspiracy theory I do not need to. It is reality or have you not watch the ENRON hearings or head of Arthur Anderson testifying. Did I ever say Audiogon members are doing anything like you claim? I say someone is so please don't get defensive and certainly when it is not called for. I am saying someone is feeding this endless cycle and it is not the SACD/DVD-audio types whereever they exist be it on Audiogon, Fox news channel, or at Disney world. Chill.

I meant to say, no one has pinnned me down except to change things to diverted issues. I take it you think CEOs think about you in making decisions that will make them filthy rich. I guess you are right what was I thinking?

OK, call me a masochist, but I'll bite again.

As to your argument that today's software isn't worth investing in HT; I think we can agree to differ, but maybe you aren't looking in the right places. As with any artistic medium, different strokes for different folks. Its like saying the world of music isn't worth investing in 2CH b/c pop music is populated with inane female teen toy idols and insipid boy bands. Lots of good movies being noted in another HT thread--try watching some of those. Maybe you don't like any of them. Maybe others do, and maybe they believe the ability to see them over and over is worth the HT investment.

As to your argument that HT is a lousy investment, I did a quick scan of some HT gear (surround sound processors) versus 2CH gear (preamps) in the A'gon bluebook, restricting my comparisons to companies that made both in the same year. The trend is that (whoa!) generally, more expensive gear has a greater percentage depreciation. But, your point that HT gear is worth less is wrong--at most a couple of percentage points in the comparisons I did, and in at least one case (Classe), their 2CH preamp (CP-45) fared much worse than their processor of the same year (SSP-1) (45% of value, vs. 58% for the SSP-1).

Given that I see as much on SACD in the 2CH fora as I see about 7.1 in the HT fora, why do you believe HT users are more susceptible to leaping before things become established? Moreover, when your thread implies that I (and other A'gon) users are soft-mindedly being manipulated by mfrs/advertisers to make that leap and we were following like so many sheep, it seemed like an insulting stereotype to me. If that wasn't what you were implying, perhaps you could restate your point.

As far as the ENRON diversion goes, I fail to see what it has to do with HT. And, frankly, I haven't said anything about it, so to be paraphrased by you is, at best, rather disingenuous. If you really want it, I'll lay it out for you, even if it is irrelevant. I, rather cynically, believe that CEOs act in their best interest. Generally that self-interest is also impacted by fiduciary duties to shareholders, so increasing share value (i.e., caring about shareholders) is usually viewed by most CEOs as a good thing. Does it always work? No. Is ENRON a fiasco? Yes. What's the relevance to HT?

Don't congratulate yourself for being slippery. Making unsupported statements and then failing to engage on the merits doesn't make you a forensic genius.