Movie Software make HT a Waste of Resources?

Are you making an argument for music or against HT? I don't think you'll find anybody here who argues with you on your points about music - I listen to music more or less constantly, usually in the background, and can't imagine life without it.

When you read, do you allow for people to have open discussion with you? You're correct that when I'm watching a movie, I don't want people talking to me, but the same holds for reading as well as many other past-times. You're correct, though, that I don't mind it a bit when I'm listening to music.

I don't agree with your assessment that computers don't need to be upgraded but HT hardware does. Somebody who bought a Pro Logic receiver 8 years ago can still use it to their satisfaction today just the same as somebody running Windows 3.1 on a 486 can. I'd suggest that probably more so - it's easier to find software today that is compatible with the receiver than that computer. Or, somebody who bought the first DD 5.1 receiver in the late 90's can use it for many many years to come. It's at least as useful as a Pentium 166.

Why do you believe Cisco routers REALLY need to be upgraded? If we would all just accept communications as acceptable at today's level of service, we wouldn't need better routers - they'd mechanically last for years. They REALLY need to be upgraded because people want more, for mainly the same reasons you give for HT upgrades - the promise of something better. They're not being upgraded for email - they're being upgraded for streaming video (for movies on demand, amongst others). And by having this infrastructure constantly improved, there are any number of undesireable side effects. I would agree that there are many more positive side effects to the upgrading of the nation's communication infrastructure than there is with the onward march of HT hardware, but the negatives seem undeniable as well.

I'd ask again if there is a suggestion as to what we as an interested community should do in response to the concerns you express. I've never watched a movie in anything more exotic than DD 5.1, so I can hardly be accused of chasing the never ending formats. That's also my advice to anybody who wants to "try" HT - set it on DD 5.1 and forget about all that other stuff.

Your posts are interesting, Nanderson. I find many people who have interesting thoughts and points of view, with an especially dense population of that type of person on Audiogon. Have a great week! -Kirk

HT is the target. You made several of my points for me. Thanks! :) HT does not need to be upgraded (as I stated before) if people would think about it. Congratulations on your apparent ability not to buy into the marketeting propaganda. But since apparently most Americans live their lives on Marketing Autopilot, the Marketers drag them by the ring through their collective noses. Hard evidence: The market place puts next to no value on the used processors. If people really valued the equipment they would get a buck or two for their used stuff. You almost can not give the stuff away. The HT market is based on trashing equipment constantly and that is very seriously bad for the pocketbooks of the consumer and the environment (you know....The Environment, that place that SUV commercials say you travel to in your SUV rather than the place where you live. Since you travel to it in the SUV way-of-thinking you can afford to mess it up. The Environment is where you live regardless of what the Ford Expedition commercials say). And maybe more importantly, the HT wasteful cycle is a horrible consumer model to be teaching our children.

HT is a one-way street with hollywood as the traffic cop of ideas if we allow it to consume time that we could dedicate to expanding our collective awareness.

Not believing improvements in communication, even with its downsides, as not needed is not a option. So routers are a necessary evil. HT as a prisoner of our time and wasteful consumer model is not.

The response I am looking for is like the one I think the citizens of Atlanta (see above) wish they would have had. Question the assumptions and think about the consequences (examples are littered throughout this thread)of anything we do as a society before the options are gone.

So that I can also win a few votes: I think that Audiogon members contain the greatest concentration of this worlds last hope for a tomorrow that have ever walked the face of this planet or all the collective planets of at least our 3 nearest galaxies. We have to be pretty smart to afford all this stuff. Right. Well, ok....maybe some of us are just sneaky

Least I forget, here is the good-will saying for this hour: May all things wonderful and blissful carry you and everyone you touch for the rest of your life!:)

Is there a point to this?

Nanderson, you seem to shift topics everytime someone tries to pin you down. The common part of this thread, as I see it, is that you want to think your keen intellect has forced another cave-dweller into the light of self-introspection. It hasn't and it won't.

In fairness, I will admit that the readability of the thread was not enhanced by the fact that, due presumably to some quirk of people's election to go with in-line HTML or whatever, the fonts seemed to get larger and more colorful with each successive reply. Its hard to read when only two words fit on a line. Esp. when they are violet.

I think your original point was that most modern movies are bad/unwatchable. As with anything, there's a lot of drivel targeted at the lowest common denominator and some good quality stuff around the edges. I like the escapism of movies (even some of the drivel), and find that movies--like books or music--can generate some interesting conversation among friends. Do I need the latest greatest HT to enjoy movies? No. Does HT enhance my enjoyment of movies? Sure.

You then morph into the argument that HT is bad b/c of changing standards/planned obsolesence. Audio has its "flavor of the day" aspects too--CD, HDCD, DVD-A, SACD, MP3 and various sub-religions in component design. Why single out HT for criticism? Given that these marketing tricks also produce design advances, is the purist thing to do to listen to wax impressions on a gramophone or something? No thanks.

I'll skip the stuff about routers. Don't know, don't care.

Then, if I track correctly, the argument seems to go to the "unexamined life not being worth living" with some paranoid conspiracy theory stuff thrown in to boot. The defect seems to be you've lumped A'gon users into a class of people whose lives consist of slaving away for the man to buy the next fix in HT equipment, while blithely ignoring the world's real problems, in order to isolate/insulate ourselves. Bollocks. I remember an A'gon threat where people talked about their other interests--there are every variety of people here, from artists to race car drivers, to kayakers, to parents, etc.

In other words, don't stereotype me or us. I happen to like my HT and some movies made after Citizen Kane. As to the rest of my life, my compromises are different than yours. I'll go as far as saying I think mine are a *better* balance than yours, without knowing or caring what yours are. Guess you think yours are a better balance than mine, without knowing or caring what mine are.

So? Next topic please. Really.

Thanks for the complements! I appreciate it. To my knowledge no one has pinned me down except on diverted issues. If so, let me know about it. My original thought that it makes little sense to buy a ferrari if all you have is kerosene to run it. The next natural step in the insanity of HT is how useless the hardware is after a few years of manufacturers playing around with you. If you like to see $5000 turn into less than $1000 in less than a 6 years I guess for your balance of priorities is fine for you but not for me. I have no problem with Sony and Philipps/Pioneer going in the red over hi-end formats like SACD/DVD-Audio that audiophiles have yet to be hoodwinked into buying till the dust settles. I just wonder why the manufacturers have been so successful at the same format game with HT. Regarding conspiracy theory I do not need to. It is reality or have you not watch the ENRON hearings or head of Arthur Anderson testifying. Did I ever say Audiogon members are doing anything like you claim? I say someone is so please don't get defensive and certainly when it is not called for. I am saying someone is feeding this endless cycle and it is not the SACD/DVD-audio types whereever they exist be it on Audiogon, Fox news channel, or at Disney world. Chill.

I meant to say, no one has pinnned me down except to change things to diverted issues. I take it you think CEOs think about you in making decisions that will make them filthy rich. I guess you are right what was I thinking?