Are you manufacturer's paying attention?

We've tried really hard to keep prices down over the years, one of the more obvious being we just don't price our gear to the same formula that a lot of manufacturers do.

Despite that, the market has consistantly told us that it prefers to pay a little more if the end result is better sound. Unfortunately, there is also the phenomena that a more expensive amplifier is perceived to be better for no other reason then the cost.

Eventually the market figures out that the more expensive amplifier is not always better out of sheer price alone. It is finding that out about one of our close competitors right now.

There is also the 'you get what you pay for' issue. I doubt there is a single under-$2000-amp out there that is really something that would be called world class and state of the art. We would all like to make amps that cheap, I imagine, but the facts are that such an amp has to really have some corners cut to be worth making.

I paid < $1000 for a mint,< 50 hour Pass Labs Aleph-3
This retailed for $2500.
I've read dozens of reviews where this amp was put up against 'the best' and more often than not walked away the winner.
"You get what you paid for" mentality is what SOME big $$$$$$$$$ amp manufacturers want you to believe.
Nelson Pass puts out big $$$$$$ amps but still offered a modestly priced amp (aleph-3) and didnt call it something else to protect his name.
I say,buy used at a fraction of the retail and let the big pocket guys who *need* to spend all the money take the loss.

My point is that I don't think the complaints about the absence of reasonably priced audio gear are valid. I call upon those who feel differently to prove that there truly are no worthwhile audio products available at affordable prices.

I asked for folks to contribute to a list of worthy and fairly priced components so that we could perhaps examine whether those components really do represent worthy sonic performance at realistic prices. Let's agree on what qualifies as good performance for the price.

Do we want to compare the differences between the Atma-Sphere MA-1's (at $10K) and the Cary SLAM-100's (at $5K), for example? Or do we want to discuss the merits of going with the entry Plinius separates as opposed to the best Plinius integrated amp? Do products from ARCAM, Musical Fidelity, Antique Sound Lab, Audio Electronic Supply, and Wright Sound qualify for this discussion?

I also suggested we all have some control over the pricing. If it ain't worth it, don't buy it. Prices will come down if so-called over-priced gear does not sell. (I believe that sonic performance per dollar spent is going UP, not down IMHO.)

Many audio buyers seem to pay a lot for components based on the perceived prestige of owning "pedigree" gear as opposed to superior sonic performance. Is my point any clearer now?

If your reference to the market place finding out about high prices not necessarily offering commensurate performance, and you mean Joule Electra, I agree.

I am familiar with both the VZN 80 and your MA-1's. Their pricing was ballpark similar at the time I heard both. No contest. MA-1's win.

ralph@atma sez:"We would all like to make amps that cheap, I imagine, but the facts are that such an amp has to really have some corners cut to be worth making." I dare say my indirect experience in the matter tallies, lately with a EE friend battling to build a "no-compromise" pre (tube).
The materials research alone has cost him $4.5k and it's not over; already the unit in "beta" form costs ~2.5k to assemble NOT including case, etc and damping matls. The chord linking the PS to the main chassis adds another $100...
And this from a seasoned hobbyist with 25yrs of tinkering behind him!
I hate to think what the retail price of such a unit could be!