2. home-theater
  3. 1104106416

A somewhat unusual request for PrePro help

I have been in 2 channel high end for a long time. I've been very happy for many years with the following:

EAD T1000 transport
EAD DSP-7000 v.III D/A
Bedini Preamp
Bedini 803 amp
Shahinian Diapason speakers
Kimber and Siltech cables throughout

Like others I am struggling with the desire to move into HT, without sacrificing musical reproduction. My problem is as follows: my house does not allow me to support a dedicated 2 channel AND a HT setup (not enough room). I also find that most HT receivers I have heard (B&K, Denon, Yamaha, Marantz, some others) really do not sound all that good - each in their own way (relative to what I'm used to) for unadulterated musical listening. So I have decided to try and put together a HT system with parts of my existing system.

Since the space I have for HT is also non-ideal (it's big enough, but its arrangement makes for troublesome equipment placement), I decided that I would try to replace parts of my system in an effort to try and consolidate things. One of the first new things I bought was the Marantz DV-8400 DVD player. I listened to a few units (including Denon and Sony) in the hope of finding a universal player that would work well with 2 channel music. I settled on the 8400 because it was the best compromise (for me) given its cost. It does 2 channel in a nice, musical fashion. The low end is reasonably articulate (but does not go down quite as low as my EAD rig). The mid is somewhat laid back, but not recessed. The high end is (again) musical and reasonably airy (but not as extended or haze-free as the EAD rig). I know this sounds like a *negative* assessment, but it really isn't. Given that I was not about to look at a Linn Unidisk or anything like that, it's really quite nice. The Marantz is also quick and has nice pace. It was a steal at the price I paid. Plus, it's video performance is quite good.

So I am now looking to replace my Bedini pre with a HT prepro. Now I know that I *should* be looking at using my Bedini in some kind of pass-thru fashion with a HT device just handling multichannel, but I really am trying to consolidate things, so I am willing to make compromises, but only very SMALL ones (g).

I've read up on a few prepros, and have narrowed my interest to Bryston, Cary, Naim, and EAD. My desires are for the following:

Multichannel analog direct mode
2 Channel analog direct
Video switching is not a requirement
The usual other stuff that makes for HT audio capability (but well done)

I am primarily hoping to find something in the $2500-$4000 range (like new or new) that will help the 8400 in both the upper and lower extreme, but not at the expense of grain or hardness at the top, or boominess at the bottom. I am greatly interested in the Naim, but I am a little concerned about how much of the classic "Naim sound" it may have. Now my audio experience is all in 2 channel, and may be a little out of date. But my memories of the Naim sound were that of incredible pace and rhythm, and excellent midrange, a tuneful upper and lower end, but not as airy on the top or as resolved at either end as I would have liked. Additionaly, I found that the old style Naim sound tended (IMO) to impose that sort of Naim-toe-tapping effect on everything that went through it, even when it didn't seem right. Again, IMO, but if the Naim sound has evolved over the years to keep that sense of pace but also add extension and openness then it will definitely help in my thoughts regarding the AV2.

I would greatly appreciate help and opinions from those of you who are familiar with the sound of the Bedini/Shahinian combination (are there any left out there?). As far as speakers go, assume I will eventually move to maybe Arcs or the like for rears, but I don't know yet what to do about a center (unfortunately Shahinian does not make a shielded speaker).

Is it possible for the price range I've laid out to get HT sound that will at least approach what I'm used to?
tonyptony
tburn
35 posts
 
Just perusing here - didn't see anyone mention the Aragon Soundstage. Perhaps you've already discounted for whatever reason - I can only say I've been very satisfied with mine. It's been powered up for 3 yrs. continuous w/ nary a glitch, other than the remote readout being a little confused these days.
I used it for a good while for 2 ch listening and thought it was quite good. I later added the Audio Note M5, and to these untrained ears, although surely more refined, it never put the Aragon to shame. The M5 has pass-through, so the Aragon still does the lion's share of the work for the rest of the family, as other endeavors have severely limited my 2 ch. time.
I might note that the Soundstage was upgraded to the Stage 1 w/ added features, so I found it interesting lately when noticing the used asking prices for the Soundstage had actually increased from when I was more closely following over a year ago. Inflation, or demand, can't say...
Good luck with your setup...

Tom
tonyptony OP
617 posts
 
Thanks for the info on the Aragon. I did not discount it from my consideration, really. I just had not looked into it very much. I will explore this further.
maril555
619 posts
 
Hi, I think that you don't need an HT processor at all, since you already have it in your Marantz. All you need is a high quality analog-only preamp. I could give you a few options: McCormack MAP-1; Bel Canto Pre6; McIntosh C-45; Meitner Switchman; etc. That way your needs for a good quality music playback will be served without sacrificing any performance which, I believe, is inevitable using almost any Pre-Pro in the same chassis with your analog preamplification.
And, of course, you'll need some additional channels of amplification.
I switched from Bryston SP-1.7 Pre-Pro (which considered to have one of the best analog bypasses among various Pre-Pros) to McIntosh C-45 multichannel preamp with substantial gain in music playback quality, without any sacrifice in HT performance. Again, this is my system and YMMV. Regards.
tonyptony OP
617 posts
 
Maril, this is very interesting news. I am also very curious as to how you would characterize the difference in sound between the Bryston and McIntosh. I had heard that the 1.7 had a very good analog preamp capability. My recollection of Bryston gear was a quality of transparency, speed, extension, and very much detail oriented. Was that your interpretation of the 1.7? How does the Mac compare?
nighthawk
259 posts
 
Tony, maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any mention of power amps for the surround channels. If you get a pre-pro, you're going to need some amps. On the other hand, if you get a cheap receiver, as Beemer said, you can use the internal amps to power the surrounds. A decent mid-grade HT receiver can be had for around $1000 new or $500 used.

I think maybe you're expecting too much out of the surround system. Think of it as a fun adjunct to your 2-channel system and don't spend much on it. Route the receiver's pre-amp outputs for the front channels to one of your existing preamp's inputs and set the preamp volume control to a known position. This isn't as cumbersome as it sounds.
Get a powered sub, like an SVS cylinder, which is killer for HT, and connect it to the receiver's sub out. One of these will run you about $500.

Don't spend much on surround speakers, either. They are primarily for effects and don't have to be the latest word in resolution or tonal accuracy. It helps if the tweeter has wide dispersion, though. About $500/pair is good enough. Aim for about 90dB sensitivity, since most receivers calibrate to the 75dB reference level at midscale, using 90dB speakers. Extemely sensitive or insensitive surround speakers may be hard to match levels with your mains.

Avoid the center channel. You don't need it. Just set the receiver to phantom center channel mode.

So, for about $1500 to $2000 you have added surround sound capability to your 2-channel system and haven't compromised the sound one bit. Also, you only added one component (the HT receiver) to your rack.

If you have a DVD player, don't worry about the quality of its DACs. Just run a digital output to the receiver. You'll need this to decode Dolby Digital and DTS anyway using the receiver.

I ran a system configured as above for about 2 years and it was entirely satisfactory. About a year ago I got a front projector and 110" screen and split the system into seperate 2-ch and HT systems, which is preferable if you have the room for it, but I could have lived with the previous setup, strictly from an audio standpoint.
More to discover