Vinyl vs. CD

joe-b, I would also love have a look at your list. I listen to LP's on a Linn LP12/Lingo/Ekos/Klyde set-up, and to CD/DVD on a Muse 8/296. Love them both. For the most part, I prefer to listen to LP's if I have a good, clean pressing of a recording. I have NO issues w/ obtrusive surface noise with MoFi, DCC, Analoque Productions, etc, and most of my Decca, EMI, Phillips original LP's of classical music (bought second hand) are also very clean. On CD, there is just too much good music not out on LP to pass up, and the Muse gear gets close to my analog rig. If you want comparisons, I've done some of Lp vs CD vs DVD on a couple of albums - and it depends. The MoFi Folk Singer LP beat their Gold CD and the Classic 24/96 re-issue hands down IMHO (and in my system), but Hell Freezes Over is better on DVD. Mostly, I don't obsess about it too much. I guess its just a matter of taste, system balance, and good clean vinyl - but what's great is that the state of the art makes the music equally enjoyable on all formats (at least for me) - and that is ultimately why we are into the hobby.

After about an 8-year COMPLETE hiatus from vinyl, during which I immersed myself in digital, I got back to LP playing about 1 1/2 years ago. I assembled a high end analog rig consisting of VPI & Clearaudio components. If I had to sum up the vinyl experience in one word it would be: NOISE. In an effort to eliminate or mitigate this NOISE, I've upgraded my table, swapped out cartridges, purchased and used myriad cleaners along with employing nearly every popular cleaning procedure. The final result was NOISE. I grew up musically (and otherwise) in the 70s when there was nothing but LPs. And never found the NOISE obtrusive. I got into digital, ultimately, because of the practicality of CDs vs. vinyl and my eventual purchase of a CAL CDP satisfied me musically. The return to vinyl was due, in part, to my 800 or so LPs staring me in my face, but also due to the hullabaloo regarding the wonders of "high-end" analog playback. So I gave it a shot. Folks, if you can't get past the NOISE (and evidently I can't) don't bother. All the money and effort in the world won't make it better. My guess is that vinyl devotees were never "away" from their vinyl for any appreciable amount of time. They are, therefore, so accustomed to the NOISE that they are entirely unaware of its presence. Well, good for them. And vinyl does indeed sound somewhat more natural, with less "brightness". If you can tolerate the NOISE, the required attendant cleaning & hygiene (and the not inconsiderable expense for the necessary cleaning materials) and the leaping from your listening spot every 17 minutes or so, go for it. My guess is most people will prefer to live with a bit of unnaturalness. I still experience a great deal of anxiety when spinning LPs and lots of teeth-gnashing (because of the NOISE), and a great deal of relief when returning to my CAL. For the record, all my analog components match up well and my cartridge is properly set up and adjusted. As for Fremer, it's doubtful that the MAN realizes how much influence his words have on others. Personally I think he is an incedibly irresponsible -place your favorite moniker here-. Like everyone else, I've read his statements where he claims that Analog Rig X at $300 blows away any digital rig. This individual is on a crusade and will clearly state whatever he feels serves his motives most effectively. I will allow for the fact that he actually believes these claims (though I, IMHO, doubt it). But others must realize that it is only one man's very biased opinion. If you've got LPs and want to get back into vinyl, by all means go for it. Just DO NOT expect your low buck analog rig to "blow away" your mega buck digital system. And be fully prepared for the NOISE. Proceed with your vinyl plans. Just proceed with caution.

I have avoided entering this fray because of the more than 100 emotional posts at a previous CD/LP posting, which began harmlessly as a similar topic. I am not surprised that there are those of you who have noise problems with LP. The LP format requires extreme care in setting up to get it quiet. Many dealers who sell analog are not experienced enough to get a turntable set up perfectly, even if they had the time to come to your home. LP is never absolutely quiet, although I have lots of LP's that play completely through with as good a signal to noise ratio as a CD. For those of you who have decided that CD is your format, be happy. However, I would like for you to quit defending the CD format as an equal performer in a ultra high end system. If you are going for the ultimate in musical reproduction, it has to be analog. If price is a consideration, then digital is clearly a better value, as you can get pretty good performance for less than what a phono cartridge alone costs! Analog is lots more trouble, much more limited on new program material, and more maintenance on all the associated equipment as well. All I can say is, this should come as no real surprise. I know of nothing in high end audio that is truly superior that is not a large pain in the rear. That includes tubes being more problems than transistors, LP more problem than CD, large and expensive cables more problem than zip cord, dedicated circuits more trouble than the ordinary household outlets, room treatments more ugly and more work than leaving the room alone, and separates more hassle than receivers. I was once convinced that digital "had arrived" and pretty much gave up on LP in the mid 80's, with the promise that digital would be perfect sound forever and completely overtake analog. Since then, I have owned at least twenty combinations of digital players, converters and anti jitter devices, with my efforts leading all the way up until about 1998. I finally gave up on trying to fix the digital format, and continued to play my CD's on mid line equipment, with the accepted the loss in quality. The good news is that I can now enjoy my analog music again, and quit worrying about trying to find a CD player that will compete with it. There are members who post on Audiogon that have chosen to come and listen at my home. One was an AVID CD user and owned a top of the line two box system, valued at well over ten thousand dollars. After a trip to my home and a direct comparison against my turntable (same artist and music, his choice), he sold his digital system and bought a VPI turntable and a phono stage. As for his CD's, yes he kept them. The difference is now he plays them, on a Rotel, instead of continually being disappointed by performance that never delivered what was promised, regardless of the dollar or time invested. What we often argue about here at Audiogon is the defending of the digital format as ENJOYABLE. I have no doubt that many of you have great sound with digital. I am simply saying that if you ever heard analog correctly, in your own system, you would have a hard time ever forgetting it. If you never get used to better, its much easier to be happy where you are.

Hi Blzbub; I appreciate your above post as it agrees 100% with my recent attempt at trying to get back into vinyl. You probably read this whole thread, and know that I had quite a bit of input early in the thread. As with your experience, the main turn-off to me regarding vinyl was simply NOISE-- not the loud ticks and pops, but the continuous "white noise", to static, to crackling. Even with brand new HQ vinyl, I was aware of the stylus dragging along the grooves. But I also agree that good vinyl can sound more natural than CD-- until you get up to a very good digital front end, which I have, and I assume you do too. I felt relieved and relaxed when I went back to the "quietness" of digital. While I respect vinyl junkies and their committment (my best audio friend is a vinyl junkie) to the format, it's not for me for the very reasons you mention, and especially the noise. I also agree about M. Fremer, while he believes what he is doing, he is too zealous and not very tolerant. Never-the-less, I'm glad I "had a go" at re-trying vinyl 'cuz now I know for sure. I don't know what you're going to do with your vinyl collection, but nobody wanted mine, and I ended up giving 300-350 LPs to a charity in hopes that they could make a little off them-- I even felt a little guilty, but they said "thanks". Cheers. Craig

Hi Albert; We were posting at the same time so I missed your well written statement above. I respect your views as much as anyone on this forum, and I have no doubt that your state of the art analog rig sounds better than my "quite good" digital one. As stated above I could not listen past the noise of the modest vinyl rig I tried-- further, I am very happy with my CD based system. Vinyl lovers seem to think they are the only ones committed to working at getting the most music out of their systems as possible, and with this I partly disagree. While maybe less work, I have installed dedicated AC and ground systems, spent 61 days placing speakers within room, built a 200 lb. stereo stand with many audiophile features, addressed vibration control, upgraded power cords (and all wires), and purchased the best quality digital front end that I can afford. I continue to try promising "tweaks" and enjoy doing it. BTW, it took me a month working 1/2 days just to build my stereo stand. My point is that there is much that the digital user can do to improve the musicality of his system too. Finally, I say again, your state of the art analog system undoubtedly "sounds" better than my CD based rig, and I would love to hear your system, but weighing every experience I can, I get a great deal of enjoyment out of the music system that I have (so maybe it's best that I don't hear your system), and for me that's enough. Cheers. Craig.