Willing to be proved wrong.

Hi Paul:

From your comments you do not leave the preamp powered up 7/24 which is very much needed to improve the sound (it also requires a minimum of 100 hours, 150 is more like it, of running a signal in order to sound its best). The most a battery can last (@ complete idle w/o a signal being processed is 8 days in any of my units) and I cannot imagine buying and tossing non rechargeable batteries within this amount of time being that I leave them powered up all the time.

This is not meant as a rebuttal of your specific findings and is just to point out that these budget preamps can sound quite good when operated in the manner that I describe (hassles and all, which also includes using a high output cartridge due to the gain).

As far as the rest of your post you have my MO down to a "T" (being that I am a music junkie on a budget) and I also heartily agree with what you point out as being the main reason for most anyone to own a TT (regardless of its status) in decent operating condition (this being in regard to expanding ones music library).

Elmuncy:

If you wish possibly scratched and dirty LP's (from your hay days) to be without crackles and pops, then it's not going to happen. I will purchase rare LP's in poor condition (just to hear them for the first time), but the ticket is to learn how to inspect and judge LP's, as far as playing condition goes, if purchasing them in person on the used market.

Just to drive you nuts (LOL) me and my wife have purchased 1200, or so, used CD's in the past 3.5 years for maybe $2.5K tops. In the past year we have purchased around 1500 LP's, 99% of them being in mint playing condition, also on the used market, for well under $1K. I do however realize that this depends on ones local.

I also collect reel to reel tapes and 78's even though I have not owned a R2R or a 78 player for 20 years as someday I may have this source gear again.

Dekay, you're definitely a man after my own heart!

I don't know if this thread is dead or not, but I'll say more. I've got my old Garrard hooked up to my Yamaha and from that to my Creek. This would have to be a worst case scenario, as this is not the way to hook things up, my TT is crappy, the cartridge is 20 years old, and da## does it sound nice! I can see the pontential. I've been looking at used stuff, and from what I can find by looking at threads, the old ones to get are Dual, and Thorens, although some say the Technics 1200 is good. Give me some advice without breaking the bank.

I own a Technics SL-1200, and while I like it fine and it might well be better than what you've got now, I'm not going to tell you that you should get one. But I will say that you can probably do a lot better, for not a lot of money, than getting involved with the majority of old TT's such as the ones you mention. There are decent new options out there for audiophiles, without having to go down a disappointing or excessively mod'n'tweaky path of trying to restore an old machine and reduce its inherent flaws. It won't be worth what might initially seem like the savings you think it, and most of these tables are inferior to what you could get in a nice new, clean, moderately-priced TT today.

I'd go for a nice new inexpensive belt drive with an inexpensive cartridge. Don't overspend on the cartridge. Try a local dealer if you are near one. That way you can get some hands-on help if you need it. Or give the guys at the mail-order and online places a call; Music Direct and Jerry Raskin sell inexpensive tables - I don't konw if they discount. Smaller, but probably less bewildering selection and a discount can be found through Reference Audio Video in Torrance Cal. RAV has been in business for a long long time, mail order by telephone before the internet, and are very helpful really good guys. www.reference-av.com, or call them at 1-800-947-4434.