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Who will survive? One last table til I die.

I want to buy a final turntable (call it 25 years worth of use until I can't hear or don't care). I want to be able to get parts and have it repaired for the next quarter century. I would also like the sound quality to be near the top or upgradable to near the top for that time period. I don't necessarily require that the manufacturer be solvent that long (the preferable situation), but otherwise the parts would have to be readily available and the design such that competent independent repair shops be able to fix it. I won't spend more than $10,000 and prefer (but don't require) an easy set up that doesn't need constant tweaking. I'm willing to pay for the proper stand and isolation needed over and above the initial cost.

I've got 9,000 LPs, and it doesn't make sense to start over replacing them with CD/SACDs (although I have decent digital equipment) even if I could find and afford replacements. Presently I have a CAT SL-1 III preamp and JL-2 amp, Wilson speakers, Sota Cosmos table, SME IV arm, and Koetsu/Lyra Clavis/AQ7000nsx cartridges.

Thanks in advance for your input. Steve
suttlaw
gregm
3,414 posts
 
Steve- being on an identical quest some time ago, I came up with the following criteria (for what they're worth):
* simple design meaning user-friendly servicing (which ruled out Goldmund, for example)
* if possible, easy to replace parts subjected to wear
* very simple set-up
* a manufacturer that provides "life" guarantee & parts, &/OR freely gives specs for user replacement of parts (bearings, suspension, belt...)
* Of course good sound is a must...
I believe that you'll narrow down the manufacturers using these criteria. I doubt you'll need to spend $10k for the TT (cartridge not included).

The ONLY issue I could NOT address was (and is) the arm: how can I service the arm if heavy damage occurs? 15 yrs down the line, I still haven't cracked that one (other than taking care not to break the arm!!!) I do have replacements for all other wearable items for the arm.

BTW, my choice was a Simon Yorke TT. There's virtually no set-up (ok, you have to plug it into the mains, affix a cartridge to the arm & set overhang & vta; levelling the TT is also recommended:) That's it). All the metal parts are rugged, the belt is replaceable (by S Yorke -- but other belts can also apply), the three springs (suspension) are replaced for free -- BUT you can also get the specs for these & buy industrial grade replacements... & so on.
suttlaw's avatar
suttlaw OP
41 posts
 
We think alike, Gregm. I like the concept of a lifetime guarantee, providing, of course, that the company life surpasses that of the turntable.

The tonearm is problematic, although one could conceivably just buy a spare or two, given the cost relative to the table itself. BTW, I think much the same criteria should apply in picking the tonearm as the table, which means no linear tracking arms.

Easily the worst longevity problem in the vinyl playback chain lies with the cartridge(s), of course. I've broken too many too easily, and they don't seem to be getting cheaper. Their other big difficulty, mentioned earlier in the thread, is that cartridges have parts that deteriorate (even when just sitting on the shelf) and that are not easily replaced by the consumer. Thus stockpiling them is not a good option, and I accept that I shall have to budget pension money for new cartridges over the years.

I don't know much about the Simon Yorke table, but since it fits your criteria, I shall certainly look at it. What other tables did you consider and how close was your choice? What finally made the Simon Yorke the winner?

Steve
twl
3,251 posts
 
How about a turntable which has all of its design criteria in the public domain? The Teres turntables were developed by an international consortium of audiophiles on the internet. All the engineering data and parts specs are available on the web. Also, the participants and designers names and email addresses are on the web. No matter what may happen to the company(which I believe is growing and will be around), all parts, dimensions and materials are available from the vendor companies, and even suitable alternative parts may be substituted, when you have the specs. The platter, bearing, and plinth are virtually bulletproof, and the motor is in a separate housing. I doubt Maxon swiss motors is going out of business anytime soon, but even if they did, you could even substitute any outboard drive system alongside the turntable and just swap pulleys. The main parts of the table(platter, bearing, plinth) are stand-alone, and will never wear out. The only thing that might wear out is the motor/controller. Since they are outboard, you could even buy a few of them, and keep them as spares. The whole motor/controller/pulley/housing system is only about $400 and you could keep a couple of them in a shoebox.

The Teres tables are robust and very good sounding. They are overbuilt and simple. All parts and specs are available to you, no matter what would happen to the company. No secrets. This is about as safe as you could get. And the only part that is subject to failure is sourced from a very major industrial motor company which is much more likely to be here than any turntable company 25 years from now. And even if there was a problem with that, many outboard motor units from people like Walker, VPI, Verdier, or any standalone motor/controller unit can be substituted easily, with no disassembly. Or you could get a cache of spare motor units. I think that having access to all parts easily is better than depending upon the solvency of any audio company.

They will accept any arm. They have no springs to sag or go bad. No air bladder suspensions to leak. No mats to deteriorate or degrade. The belt is made of silk cord that is available from any sewing or beading store, so you don't have to stockpile rubber belts that may deteriorate with age either.

Basically, you have a turntable that has just about no breakable/wearable parts, and a separate motor housing that has all of the breakable/wearable items inside it, by itself. You can stockpile these or source the contents yourself any time you want. I'm sure Chris will give you a complete parts list of every single component in the system, along with their vendors, if you want a compiled list, so you don't have to make it yourself off the internet. He can also sell you separate replacement motors, control boards, or whatever you want.

I think it is best to be in control of your own destiny, instead of relying on any company being in business.

The Teres turntables are very reasonably priced and factory-direct. The performance is as good or better than most tables priced far higher. I'd pick my Teres over any table that has been mentioned in this thread so far.

So, there's a different angle for you to consider.
ad010685
102 posts
 
Give a look to this. Not much famous in USA (yet)
http://www.avidhifi.co.uk/
gregm
3,414 posts
 
Steve, when I was looking there wasn't much available that fit the criteria: among those considered was the big P Lurne (too complicated & many lacquered wooden parts so, vulnerable), the P Triangle Export (too finical & I wanted "better" sound), Oracle (it seemed too complicated too, although robust looking), Townsend Rock (irreplaceable parts -- I liked that one though), VPI (good construction, but too many wooden parts & "complicated" set-up to get the voiving I wanted)...

The Teres (a good idea from Twl who's researched these things) wasn't around.

So, the somewhat expensive (then; nowadays "reasonable") S. Yorke, looked good; with a bog-standard outboard motor (easily replaceable), no wood apart from the basic board that serves as an armboard, no "belt" problem (being outboard, the motor is placed wherever you like; in fine, you only need a thin rubber band of reasonabley large diametre to make the platter turn -- sorry this doesn't sound very hi-end, but it's true, I've done it), it looked promising.
It also sounded good (better to my ears than the Lurne+parallel arm+ the good'ole Grasshopper), which was heart-warming.

Strangely, the cartridge doesn't worry me; I have a feeling (i.e. no corroborating evidence) these will be around for a while... the fact that products like Shelter pop up, are a consolation. Clearaudio also seems set to last for some time, and others -- I can't vouch for the VdHul Colibri, but who knows?

As to the arm, I've decided to get an extra one, when finances allow -- a VERY user-friendly unipivot, hopefully available for around $ 1k. Hopefully, I'll make do with that & my present arm (I only have ~3000 LPs now, nothing like your collection!)
Cheers
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