Results from Beta Testers of New Formulas

Psychic: I'm still on "vacation". I'm just taking a vacation from my vacation : )

Actually, i just set up a new computer as the old hard drive was taking a dive. Just putting the new one through the paces. That's good info that you contributed and i will be buying some of the filtration gear that you referenced.

Jphii: It almost concerns me that you are getting SO much "dark grundge" off of what you thought were previously clean records. At this stage of the game, i'd be very careful with what you are doing and how brave you are with your "babies". While i'm certain that Paul has done his homework and would not be foisting anything that he was less than confident in upon the Agon public, pulling an extreme quantity of "gunk" out of records that were previously cleaned reasonably well does leave room for concern. It almost sounds as if plasticizers are being leeched out of the vinyl.

Paul: What is the longest period of time that you've left the enzymatic on the record? Did you experience anything similar to what Jph mentioned? How long has it been since you've cleaned your first record with this specific combo of cleaning solutions and have you inspected / played it lately? Sean
>

I left the enzymatic on a few different LPs for 1/2 hour every day for about 6 weeks. If the enzymatic began to dry, I added more. During, and at the end of the testing, I played all the LPs, and found no damage or degradation under illuminated microscopy. I continue to play these LPs (some 4 months post first application), and continue to find no damage. Because of this regimen, enzymatic was left on the LPs for a total of some 1,200 minutes (20 hours) ... certainly many, many multiples of the amount of time that should ever be necessary: unless you subsequently get grease or fingerprints on your LPs, I don't think you'll need to use the enzymatic more than once.

I did not get as much grunge off my LPs as Jphii reports ... which did cause me some concern. However, nearly all of the LPs had been previously cleaned with the cleaner formula, variations of which I have used for a few years now. (More recently, I played with formulation of the cleaner formula to find the combination which seemed to be the best solvent for the enzymatic).

While I let the enzymatic sit on my vinyl for the noted extended periods (1/2 hour at a time), I can't say I recommend that others do so as well. I only know what my results were, and that based on my LPs being fine, after leaving the enzymatic on 1/2 hour x 6 weeks, I have a high level of confidence that the enzymatic is safe when left on for much shorter durations.

BTW, the enzymatic I sourced is supplied containers made of HDPE (High Density Polyethylene) ... which is a variety of vinyl, and I personally use HDPE squeeze bottles to apply both cleaner and enzymatic formulas to the LPs I am cleaning. Now, I am not a chemist, but it seems to me that the chemical structure of proteins and vinyl are very different. Proteins are made of amino acids. Vinyl is made from ethylene (derived from natural gas or petroleum) and chlorine (derived from salt). Maybe someone with more chemistry knowledge than I could jump in an explain the structural differences.

Tomorrow I'll find out more about making ultra-pure water, and report back.

Best regards,
Paul

Sean,

If I thought I could hear any degradation of sound, I might start to worry. But so far the opposite has been true. As we speak I am playing the Orbison disc, and I still can't believe how good it sounds. Also, I remember Paul stating that he had left it on for half an hour. I beleive that the enzymes just clean that much better.

I understand your concerns, and a do share them a little. But once the enzymes are gone from the record, they can do no damage. And if they did in the first place they should be obvious on first play. If the plasticizers were leeched out of the vinyl, the first play should ruin it.

Don't get me wrong, the RCM outflow tube isn't turning black. But there is substantially more dirt in the fluid than with RRL. Not so much on a disc that has been sink-cleaned, then done with RRL.

I have to say it again: I think PRCF just works better, and leaves a disc cleaner. I've got about enough left to do 2 more albums. I plan on leaving it on those two for as long as I can before it starts to dry. If I think it causes a problem, you can count on me letting all of you know.

Joe

Where's TWL? I just came from doing my last laundry in Toledo and guess what? One of the *mature* waitresses was doing laundry, too! NO abdominal fat, WOW!!! Get that BMW 'cycle ready, Tom...Sistrum should give you an 'entertainment' allowance!

I'm going off the air until who knows...best to everyone. I found a one liter bottle of ultrpure water among my things. If any of you testers is interested I could send it next week. Let me know via private e-mail.

Anybody heard from Raoul?

***

Sean and Jphii: now that Jphii has said "Don't get me wrong, the RCM outflow tube isn't turning black," I am much more comfortable with his use of and results from the enzymatic. Still, I suggest leaving the enzymatic on the vinyl for no more than a couple minutes.

Also, from my conversations with "el brillante," the Psychicanimal, it appears that if ultra-pure water is used in the cleaner formula (which I think will be made optional with the user), it will even more effective as a solvent ... including as a solvent of any remaining enzymatic.

Best regards,
Paul