Graham Phantom vs the Graham 2.2

Thank you,very much,for the fine feedback!I,too,am very interested in both the SCHROEDER and the AIRLINE.Here are my concerns though.As for the Airline,the feedback I've been getting from the preliminary press reports,as well as from my own audio friends tell me to expext this to be a sensational,and probably,final purchase.That being said,aside from the high price(and the fact that the 2.2 is way better than I'd previously thought,as I now really have inate knowledge of the effect of that DAMN DAMPING FLUID on the arm's performance)I just can't,at this time get around the fact that it will be a major pain in the tush to run the tubing and position,as well as deal with the pumps,compressors etc.But,BOY do I love to ponder the possibility of this arm becoming a reality in my system, at some future point.The SCHROEDER,also,looks to be a fine arm,only there seems to be almost a shutting out of any potential buyers,when it comes to being able to get any kind of exposure to it in the NY/NJ area.Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this one.Last year at HE 2004 there was a Schroeder shown,but,not set up for music.What good was that?I aso don't know of any dealers that demo this,seemingly great arm,in my area,aside from the fact that good ANALOG dealers died out about 10 years ago.So what does someone like myself have to go on?The feedback on the NET!Which is great,but I'm not spending any money on something that is just so RARE.Also,the Schroeder is VERY PRICEY for a pivot.It may well be worth it,though,but I admit to being sceptical of that price.As for the Airline,It is also going to be almost impossible for me to audition,but,I have a dear friend that already has the FABULOUS Air Tangent arm,so at least I have a guage of the difference between a really good pivot and the INARGUABLE superiority of a well set up air bearing.SO,one could easily live with the 2.2,but I know how much better the Air Tangent is,and like pondering the posibility of other potential ENVELOPE PUSHERS,which I've narrowed down to the Schroeder,Kuzma Airline,and Air Tangent.On a system,like mine,which is extremely revealing and has a soundstage that I can,literally,walk into,I'm convincd that the best possible arm will yield greater and greater rewards.So the quest continues.Now,please pardon me!I have to go out and kill myself.

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I have not heard the Kuzma nor the Air Tangent, so I can not be any help with comparisons.
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I do know that the Schroder is well worth the price (as high as it is). I will make an effort to hear both the Air Tangent and the Kuzma, but it won't stop me from getting a Schroder. It is just that good. You will always be able to sell a Schroder in a heartbeat if some how you would need or want (not really a possibility) to sell it.
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I don't expect you to make a decision to buy based on an Audiogon review, but do find a way to get to hear a Schroder. When I finally get mine, you are welcome to jump a plane out of Newark, La Guardia, or Kennedy and come down to Miami to hear mine. I will be the guy with the permanent smile on my face.
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Rgds,
Larry
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I think, everyone has it's own kind of sight, I compared last year the Schroeder with a Graham 2.0 ( no 2.2 ), in my System, same cartridge etc. ( it was a Takeda Miyabi ).
The main difference was, the Schroeder creates a bigger soundstage ( holographic ), but is not as precise as the Graham and in my opinion the Graham is much better in the higher frequencies, here it simply delivered more info.
The Schroeder Arm is good, very good, no question, but I didn't buy it, the better Detail from the Graham combined with my doubts about it's pricing ( It's an arm with a magnetic bearing and an armwand made of wood, it is a nice idea, but only a bit different compared to a Well Tempered Ref. ) made my decision.
I think, there are only 2 real advantages with the Schroeder:
you can match an armwand to your cartridge (weight )
and
you can have a longer one ( 10.5 , 12.5 etc.+ matched for your cartridge ).

The higher frequencies have nothing to do with distortion, we used a Klyne 7 Phono with it's special calibratings.

Now, I compared a Graham 2.0 to the 2.2 and I was impressed, that bearing cup is a real improvement.

Anyway, I bought a Tri-Planar VII as a 2. arm for me.

another short story:
a friend of mine, who knows my system well, went to someone who has 2 (!) Schroeder Reference ( 2 different cartridges ) and some rare ( = exclusive ? ) electronics, but average speakers, my friend told me, he was glad, when he left the house, he was so dissapointed from the presentation ( detail, but dull ) ....
An arm alone is not the secret ....

And , but that's only my opinion, I think, that most phono stages out there can't simply show the limit of a Graham Arm, of course you will hear differences, but then it depends mostly on the listener's own priorities.

Another info:
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=vinyl&m=370936

IMHO, I think, when going in this direction, check the Kuzma AirLine.
It is MUCH improved compared to the designs years ago.
When the Turntable can hold that arm - and you can afford it - think about it.

WOW!Great discussion,Thomasheisig.You pretty much nailed it.However,CELLO,now that I've just been hit with 14 inches of snow here in the northeast,do you have any guest rooms?

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Hi Sirspeedy,
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Yes, I happen to have one extra room if you don't mind sharing with most of the Audiogoners from the North East. Good luck digging out.
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At some point in the near future, I will have the benefit of hearing the Graham 2.2, Schroder Reference, and a new Triplanar all on my system with the same cartridge at the same time. I have a two armed table and will have 2 of the same cartridge so that comparison process will be greatly simplified.
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I will let you know my reactions to all 3.
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At this point, I don't have the benefit of Thomas Heisig's experience. I do think I remember that Thomas' Schroder experience was not with the Reference but another model. Perhaps Thomas can let us know which Schroder model he listened to and was it on the same system at the same time as he heard the Graham and some model of the Schroder.
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Rgds,
Larry
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