It's funny how records are still best.

>>It's funny how records are still best.<<

Ditto vacuum tubes.

Merganser,
Could you please be more specific as to which CD or SACD player or transport/DAC combo would "surpass”, or at least match LPs ? It’s been a long time since I’m looking for one. Over the years I spent dozens of thousands on digital equipment and lately found out that Technics 1300 TT which I bought on Ebay for $25 and Denon 103 for $180 (not even mention Shelter 901 from audiogon for $1000) blow away all that digital shem called CD/SACD. And now I can’t forgive myself for not buying tons of LP’s back in 1998-1999, when they sold for 3.99 brand new, sealed and almost everything was available. Unfortunately my collection of LP's is a joke and can’t match my CD collection, so, I would gladly trade some of my CDs/SACDs on to matching names of your LP's, which you seemed not to need anymore anyway. Sounds like a good deal to me. :)
But if you really can point me to the player or transport/DAC combo, which indeed match musicality and softness of LP's presentation, I will owe you big.

People like whatever format they like and I am not going to begrudge them that. However my cheap tt set-up and standard of the shelf vinyl did not even compare to my digital set-up of today. I just can not understand how people can buy these used lps at gargae sales for next to nothing and claim they are so superior in sound to cd/sacd when most of them have had their groves torn to shreds on some old junk set-up with no thought given to anti-skating adjustments or tracking force etc. etc. Even my friend who is big into vinyl says it takes 180-250 gm virgin vinyl cleaned to perfection with his rig set-up properly to better his digital set-up and he has a very cheap digital set-up. But to each his own.

Chuck

Hi Chuck,

I don't have a distaste for digital. I happen to enjoy my CDP very much. In my very humble opinion it is necessary to have both to enjoy all of the music that is available. And there certainly are examples of the ceedee being better than it's vinyl counterpart, usually due to remixing or just crappy vinyl. As good as my CDP is, there is still a real step up when I spin records. Very much like the difference between SS and really good tubes. Granted, my sources while not being the creme are still a long way from modest. While quite good in some cases, SACD never seemed to me to reach the "analog-like" claims. Plus I have always been leary of what I consider a proprietary format from a company that has long held tightly to the reins of how there products are marketed and seem to be developed to sound best when all of their components are used. Call me paranoid but I don't trust Sony as far as I can spit. Then there is that whole issue of buying a library that again is driven mainly by a single company and limited in choice. Naw, I'll stick to redbook thanks. At least until there is an end to the format wars.

I agree with you that I don't see how people who buy vinyl with the grooves worn out could get them to sound good. But then the idea is not to buy the worn out ones. I tend to buy mostly from local used record stores where I might average $6 per but I can see the vinyl and judge what I can clean and what will usually not recover no matter how many times I clean it. I've also had those 50 cent near mint garage sale LP's, but they are not the norm from this source. I would say that many of my best samples have been given to me by folks such as yourself who kept their records for many years, took great care of them and in the end decided that they weren't ever going to play them again. I do disagree with your friend about the need for heavy vinyl. I have some 180g LP's that just are well made. Then I have some of those wafer thin LP's from the '70s and '80s that are very quiet and sound terrific.

Now if we use background noise as the criteria for deciding whether digital or analog is better then I would probably give the nod to the 1's and 0's. But when you consider the sonic qualities there is no question in my opinion that analog is better. I wish it could be reel-to-reel but I'll take the licorice pizza's!

After wasting whole day on comparing CDs to LPs i. e. same albums LPs to CDs, using one of so called, analog like DAC's I think may be I was too critical :). And I did forget to mention in my privious post, that exapt Technics for $25 and Shelter for $1000 I also used phono for $2000, so its all ads up. You know.:)
However, one has to compare same albums, i.e. its not fair to take some CD which was originally recorded in 24 bit or in DSD somewere in 2004 and compare it with 1938 Benny Goodman's LP.
Yes, there are a many "not perfect" recordings on LPs, but it still sounds less irritating and fatigue, at least to my ears, then same crappy recording on CD, or moreover on SACD. Likewise good recordings on LPs will be also more plesant, to my ears, then on CDs. For example I compared Mobil Fidelity Dark Side of the Moon to its counterpart on 180g vinyl (25 years aniversary adition, and LP was better. And my analog rig i.e. table/tonearm/catridge was not seted up by sombody who really knows what he is doing, which as I understand very important.
P.S. However, after listening for LPs only, for about 10 days straight, I have to admit that it such a relief to be able to use "pause" button on remote, versus jumping of the couch and lift a tonearm every time you have to answer the phone.