The most detailed speaker cable??

>>It was flat. Why? It was proven, scientific knowledge at that time.<<

Uh, no. It was the mythology of the time. It was scientific investigation that
proved the world is round.

When you investigate the claims made about cables -- you end up laughing.

Look -- put up a cable and tell me why I should admire it. What does it do?

It sounds good?

John Dunlavy used to do a test where he would invite audiophiles and audio
critis to his lab, position techicians behind speakers, show the audience Zip
Cord and the audience would be unimpressed, then the technicians would
switch them with exotic speaker cables and the audience would wax poetic
about all of the huge improvements and changes they were hearing. Only
problem -- the cables were never changed, it was Zip Cord all along.

Cable testimonials aren't convincing.

Not to mention the way people talk about cables.

I was in a thread where a guy wanted more bass. People recommended
cables. I asked him about his system and it turned out he was using
bookshelf speakers. I suggested he buy full range speakers and cable
enthusiasts became agitated and told me I didn't understand what cables can
do. Uh.....yeah. I don't think they can make bass in a speaker without bass
capability.

Magical thinking. Weird non-sequiter insults.

Another time someone was recommending thousand dollar speaker cables to
a kid with a $500 system. The kid was complaining his system is too bright.
I looked at the pictures of his system and three walls of his listening room
were celing to floor plate glass windows. I suggested room treatments and
other component upgrades and this drew more bizarre comments.

I find it interesting that people who claim to have such sensitive hearing that
they can be disturbed by inaudible things in speaker cables an overlook
macro problems in their speakers and rooms.

It don't add up.

You get an inch deep in the cable phenomenon and your BS Meter goes off
the Richter Scale.

>>I simply asked you to listen to some cables within the confines of your
system and see if you heard a difference.<<

See -- here's another problem. The thread was not about whether cables can
sound different. I believe cables CAN sound different. In this thread alone, I
told the poster that if he wanted tonally BRIGHT speaker cables, or added
BRIGHTNESS in his system, he should do the minimum -- get a frequency
response chart of any proposed cable.

The issue was whether or not .1 db down at 20Khz is an audible roll-off.

In my experience with Sean, he has chased me from thread to thread telling
me about this "ROLL-OFF." Of course, he didn't specify the
"roll-off" so I looked up the information and posted links to
frequency response charts which showed that this "roll-off" is
.088 down at 20Khz.

Great -- another bogus cable claim.

Sorry, but when you do stuff like that, credibility goes bye bye.

So, Sean tells me that he can hear this "roll-off."

Great -- another bogus cable claim.

If he wants to concede now that he can hear no such thing, we can at least
get to some semblance of reality. We'll see.

>>If you can honestly hear a difference<<

Honestly hear a difference? Sorry, but sighted tests carry no weight -- see the Dunlavy tests referenced above.

>>those differences have to be measurable using the proper tools and test methodology.<<

If the test is based on the idea that one cable has an audible roll-off because it is .088 db down at 20Khz when driven into a 4 ohm load, you've already got a faulty test.

If you don't know the frequency reponse chart of the other cable, you're shooting in the dark. If it isn't perfectly flat, then what will it tell you? What if the frequency response shows that the other cables are bumped up in the high end? Then, what do you know? That cables with a bumped high end sound different than ones that are audibly flat?

Two words: Who cares?

>>lessens your credibility.<<

Obviously, we have vastly different ideas about what consitutes credibility.

>>Eldartford is both an engineer and a cable skeptic, yet he's open minded enough to try such a test.<<

Because Eldartford has a DIFFERENT issue. He wants to see if they sound different.

You've never bothered to notice what position I have taken, you simply blunder in and start arguing with ghosts about whether or not cables can sound DIFFERENT, even though I've written in each thread that it is possible for cables to sound different.

But, that doesn't make .1db down at 20Khz any more audible.

Sheesh.

Rsbeck,
You've made your point. In fact, you've made your point repeatedly in this and numerous other threads. But what does this have to do with the question of the author? You are firm in your beliefs, and have found an answer that works for you. I say that's terrific. But it's terribly fatiguing to jump into a thread for a lively exhange of information only to each time be blasted by your attempts to convert the wayward cable-ites. Clearly, you're an intelligent person, one who knows far more than I do about the science behind this hobby. I'm only asking if you might see your way to kicking the conversation forward, maybe just for the sake of musical enjoyment? Thanks for considering it.

I've addressed the question posed by the originator of this thread.

If you don't like to see other threads hashed out again in this one, then you
need to voice your disapproval to Sean, who posted a link to another thread
and started that argument all over again in this one. We already had a thread
for that argument.

Seems to me we were having a nice conversation in here until that.

And -- yeah -- it is a nice idea that we might "exchange
information" without disagreeing, and clearly it can be fatiguing to
listen to opposing viewpoints, but come on, imagine what you'd think if I
asked all of the cable believers to stop posting so I could enjoy a less
fatiguing exchange of information.