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Want to get excited about SACD again??

First the good news:

The new Verve re-release of Diana Krall's "When I Look In Your Eyes" finally gives us a real shot of the "analog like" potential of SACD. You may want to pick this disk up if you have a SACD player.

Now the bad (potentially good) news:

One of the reasons this disk sounds very good..and the other Verve/Krall SACD release doesn't (and I'm not talking sujective music content) is that this is a SACD only release, ie: no redbook layer.

Think about it, this only makes sense. Go to the Audio Research site and read their logic about their new CD player the CD3. ie: just do one thing well. And Ayre, Classe and other high-end audio companies are bringing out CD only players and addressing the multi-format compromises/concerns.

With all of the jitter and bits/reading concerns that any digital machine can have, it just makes sense that if we had SACD only machines (this way they could have better audio stages...etc. instead of time/money being spent on covering all bases) and SACD only disks (no problem with lasers picking up bits from too many layers)

I know, I know that Sony, and others, feel that these multi format machines and multi layer disks are the safe way to market these things. Well they are shooting themselves in the foot...or maybe the head...because if they don't release the machines and software that will show off what this format can do..well it will die. Because the very people that have tried to support the format are being given hardware and software that is not showing off the formats best.

So, give me a SCD-1 without the CD hardware, and instead put in better caps, resistors and a discrete jfet audio stage running in class A. Then give me SACD uncompromised software to play on it....even just two channel...no multi-channel. If multi-channel was important to audio..this could have been done on redbook cds for some time. This multi-channel is just Sony's knee-jerk reaction to DVD-A...and they are just missing the piont that it is a MOVIE thing not a MUSIC thing.

Sorry to ramble...but I feel SACD will fail...and it's not because it isn't better...this SACD only Krall disk shows this....it's because of this multi-multi direction that is, likely, doomed.
whatjd
ben_campbell
1,169 posts
 
Whatjd-maybe but I'm still not so sure-I think the problem lies at a more fundamental level than that-even if the machines did not play CD's people would still make the comparison.
People would still compare CD vs SACD.
I would argue that the sonic benefits (so far)do not appeal to more than a very small minority at the higher end.
I think Sony's overall strategy is confused for sure but I'm not convinced taking your approach would work any better because there is a real chicken and egg situation at the core(or should that be yolk).
That is if you don't sell the players-you don't have the market to expand the software into and so on.
To me hybrid discs are the way forward to keep the format alive but I still believe the lack of sonic difference at the medium level will kill it unless there are releases soon that exhibit why SACD is better than CD-what I've heard so far doesn't do it.
whatjd OP
1,139 posts
 
Hi Ben,

You might try the Diana Krall "When I Look In Your Eyes", SACD non-hybrid, it comes the closest to answering your last sentence...and, I believe it's lack a being a hybrid is much of the reason why.

I have the standard CD of this as well...and, it is interesting that the CD sounds good and the SACD sounds very good...and towards that "more analog" sound.

By comparison, the hybrid of her "The Look Of Love" SACD/CD/SACD-Multi, the CD layer is poorer than redbook CD that I have of the same title..and the SACD layer of this title is unconvincing...
brianmgrarcom
1,317 posts
 
Thanks for the kind words Jim. (BTW, I just added two new pix that I took this afternoon.)
calanctus
151 posts
 
Is there any evidence that SACD players pick up bits from the CD layer when playing the SACD layer? Anyone have any links to articles discussing this?

Obviously this could have very bad consequences for sound quality.
ghostrider45
449 posts
 
The player will not pick up bits from the CD layer when playing the SACD layer.

First, the laser (a shorter wavelength one, at that) is not focused on the CD layer. Second, the bits are not stored on the disc in a linear fashion like music in the grooves of an LP. They are grouped together into bundles (long story here) which are each protected by an Error Correcting Code (ECC) calculated during the mastering process. The player uses the ECC code to detect all read errors and to exactly reconstruct missing data from most read errors.

Further, these bundles are arranged out of sequence on the disc so that a scratch or defect is less likely to cause uncorrectable damage. The player rearranges them in the right sequence before decoding.

Remember, the CD and SACD standards assume that each disc will have manufacturing errors, and go to great lengths to provide robust, error-free recovery of a bitstream exactly matching the original.
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