SACD my thoughts at this time.....................


I have been on other threads accused of being consistantly negative on SACD as a format.
I'll put my full thoughts on the format here so those members with differing views can express their issues with my opinions.
Hopefully it can be archived and new posters can be directed to this thread.
I also don't claim to know all the answers so others can offer more information or contradictory evidence.

It's long been my contention SACD will probably survive as a niche Audiophille format.
I do not see it breaking into the mainstream nor do I see a time when the majority of releases make it onto SACD.
Of course I could be totally wrong and this is guesswork at this stage in the game.

Also as a music nut with an interest in audio replay I do not rule out further down the line owning a main replay machine that gives me SACD capability to go along with my higher end Redbook capability at this stage.

I'll break my points into main headings.

1.SOFTWARE QUALITY AND LACK OF NEW RELEASES/NEW MUSIC.
Clearly the number of SACD's available are increasing but is it enough?
Sales have risen also.
My opinion is that the large rise in sales is related directly to the large reissue sets of Dylan,The Stones,The Police and the mega-selling DSOTM by Pink Floyd.
These hybrid releases will tie in strongly with my argument on my second and sixth headings.
But the success of these releases lies in their ability to be played in most CD players.
Even pro-SACD members do seem at times to be worried by the quality of some SACD remasters or releases.
A major boo boo in trying to break the format.
Most importantly for me also is the close to complete lack of releases that are new and indeed non-Audiophile related.
Surely another boo boo.
The movement on software in general terms has been too slow.
Whilst no doubt some will cite CD quality and early problems however SACD does not offer the new intial convienance over vinyl CD did.

2.CHEAP MACHINE SYNDROME.
I bought my DVPSN900 on the reviews stating that it was a good audio machine as well which highlighted SACD superiority over Redbook.
It is but the difference between the Redbook and SACD replay is not noticeable to my ears nor others who have heard it.
Surely this is catastrophic for the format?
A dip in the water buying machines such as these will leave potential SACD progressive adopters unimpressed.
Sony has clearly introduced many cheaper SACD players over the last few years.

3.AVAILABILITY OF PLAYERS.
This one will sound daft to most Americans but when I was considering a higher end SACD machine to hear,there was nothing in my price range available in Glasgow,a major city in the UK and probably the biggest hi-fi city outside of London.
None of the big Audio stockists in the city have had much success in selling players.
I wouldn't doubt in a lot of European cities this is similar.
I've also not heard a single UK dealer rave about the format,maybe for the same reasons,my local dealer constantly turns down SCD-1's for trade in because he's had difficulty moving them.
American Audiophiles maybe don't realise that their market is a lot more vibrant despite the economic gloom.
Seems here in the UK after the intial burst of SACD there is a large gap in the availability market which hasn't been filled.

4.NEW PLAYERS
Outside the elite world of the likes of Emm Labs etc it seems the new players have been indifferent.
Doesn't the mediocre reviews/feedback of such big boys as Linn and Krell not bring another problem.
This month's Hi-fi+ reviews the new Classe Omega (£12K!)and describes it's Redbook playback as mediocre.
Shouldn't we by this stage seeing the technology drift down and be wowed by the new players?
Will the new Sony make a difference?
5.OTHER FORMATS
Clearly another big issue is the likes of DVDA.
With new generations adopting different types of software,is there any place for SACD?
Even the humble CD seems to have a reasonable future at this stage purely as the dominant format to buy new music on.
Of course it too is under threat but does anybody really think SACD will bypass CD?
6.HYBRID DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD.
Imagine you are reasonably interested in sonic reproduction but have a moderate to low-end system and you've just bought a newly remastered SACD hybrid of some classic.
If you notice a big jump in the CD quality will that intrigue you on SACD quality or will you think I'm not going to spend x$ on a new SACD player when I'm getting benefits where I am.
If you read a bit about it you might consider those who have heard the differences on older recordings to be very slight.
SACD worth the investment?

7.REDBOOK QUALITY ON SACD PLAYER.
Is this an issue?
I think this is key where Audiophiles are concerned.
Will a $3k SACD machine match a Redbook only player in Redbook replay.
It was this issue which ultimately led me away from trying to kill two birds with one stone.
A problem for me here in here the UK but what about in America where the overall selection is better?

8.COMBINATION EFFECT
It's my contention that SACD has too many different issues and unknowns at this stage to make anyone think that it's future is certain.
I'm sure I will hear a lot about Sony's investment and their copyright worries but will that matter if the format does not sell or grow sales?

Let's here your views-those who await further developments before investing in SACD,those who have early adopted and got out of the format and those who love it,embrace and believe it has a long future.
ben_campbell
Of course I meant obsession...why'd they take away that edit function I liked that.
Lugnut, I have never heard a digital version of Harvest that I liked, the alblum itself is wonderful imo.

I read on AA that Neil wanted SACD for Harvest, but I am not sure it would have been sonically much better.

Ben, I guess you woud have to blame the record companys including Sony for trying to make turds into a diamond but I still don't see the connection whith [dsd] SACD.

To me, the technology and the record companys marketing are not one in the same.
Just listen to any well done re-issue or dsd based recording and compare to any redbook version....there is NO comparison.

So if you are questioning the quality of any release, then question the labels, not the technology imo.
Ears...Two minor factual corrections.

1. Most DVD-A (the ones I buy anyway) come in cases that are the same size as CD's. The larger ones that a few discs came in were really much better, but the manufacturers must have heard a lot of complaints about the size.

2. It is not necessary to turn on video to play a DVD-A.

IMHO it is not necessary to knock DVD-A in order to advocate SACD. I have excellent discs of both types, and also lousy ones. Same for CDs, LPs. Tapes.

As to survival prospects...I will look to see what happens to automobile audio. Will they offer DVD-A or SACD, or maybe both? I think this will give an early indication of what will happen.
Eldartford, all of my dvd-a's are in the larger case and the vast majority at the local stores are in the larger cases as well.

I am not knocking dvd-a, but rather using the format as an example for my point of view.

Both machines I have used, the 1600 and 5900 required video not necessarily to use dvd-a, but to adjust channel configurations ect.
I fully support dvd-a as well as sacd, its just so far, more releases that I am interested in have been on sacd and by the looks of things, more releases that I would purchase are about to come out on sacd.

There are some Warner releases such as Dire Straits that can't be relesed soon enough on dvd-a.
Much like sacd,I whish they would get moving on releases a little quicker and I believe it will benifit either format to step it up a notch.

I believe that both formats will be around for the next few years minimum and will continue to buy any worthy releases on both formats.
Even though I hear sacd as more natural sounding than dvd-a, does not make me anti dvd-a so please don't stick me in that catagory.

Not only car audio but Home theater could also benifit from either hi rez format imo.
I run into more and more people of all ages that prefer free sonically inferior to redbook music on cdr, so if anything does away whith either hi rez format, it will be the I want free music even if it sucks sonically attitude.

In other words if audiophools don't support hi rez and continue to nitpick, we may all have to eventually settle for something less than redbook
Ears... I guess we buy different DVD discs. Most of mine are "audiophile" labels from Europe purchased via internet, and they have small cases (and large price tags). Apart from the larger size, which may mean new storage facilities, don't you agree that the big DVD cases are much better than those old flimsy "Jewel" cases that come with CDs?

The setup part of playing DVD-A needs a video display, but so does setup for SACD. Once the setup is done it isn't needed each time you play a disc. I first needed video for setup of my Rotel SS Processor, so I invested all of $63 in a dedicated 13" TV set which is simply part of the audio equipment rack. No problem.