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Why SACD,DVD-A are already DEAD

I think it's time to really look at this issue as it stands today,in a clear rational way that takes into account the varied market forces which are the true determinates for any new formats sucess or failure.
SACD IS ALREADY DEAD PERIOD!
Why you ask?Well for the following reasons:
1.It's been about 2-3 years since the introduction of SACD and look at position it's in, in terms of SOFTWARE AVAILIBILITY and MASS MARKET AWARENESS.
Take the pathetic lack of titles,not only that, but look at the artists that are chosen as SACD releases,Yo Yo Ma,Kind of Blue,(for the upteenth time)Muddy Waters etc,etc.This is no reflection on the artists but only on their limted MASS MARKET APPEAL.Who was the marketing genius who decided to re-issue this material to captivate and generate a MASS INTEREST to this new format.You need a MASS MARKET BASE for any medium to succeed.
2.As has been stated before in other forums(stereophile for one) why would the average person shell out $25 HARD EARNED DOLLARS for one of these titles?Why?What are the advantages to the average listerner.it COSTS more,it's an artist in a speciality genre comparatively speaking(jazz,blues,classical vs. pop,rock,techno)it offers no physical advantage in terms of storage,packaging,and not only that it requires a NEW player!
If you wanted to consciously destroy this new format you could'nt have done a better job than Sony has already done.
3.Given the current state of the music industry ,their major concern right now is to halt the proliferation of the MP3.What major label is going to go out and spends tons of $ on P&A(publicity,advertising)and also re-tooling their cd manufacturing plants to output SACD'S as efficently as CD'S?Right now their is NO MASS MARKET AWARENESS of SACD,it's a fact ,we live in the hermetically sealed world of the audiophile culture.Most people don't even know about HDCD,GOLD CD'S,MOBILE FIDELITY DISC'S!
Look at the history of the 8 track tape,dat,mini disc,beta and you will see that SACD is right on track for a quick burial.
3.In order to suceed you need a medium that offers a clear cut advantage over the existing technology.Other than some sonic advantages(even that's not a slam dunk as many would suppose)What does the average person get besides A HIGHER PRICED CD?
5.For those of you who have purchased these players
thinking that if the SACD revolution doesn't occur then at least I have a player that does cd's better than most players,well you're probably right in that it will out perform an AVERAGE player.But think about it ,Sony is making a player to maximize their new format NOT the CD.There will be some compromise on the cd playback chain, As the price of the SACD player drops so will the manufacturers concern with producing great sounding cd playback.Parts,build quailty will most definetly suffer.
DVD-A IS ALREADY DEAD PERIOD!
Why you ask?Well for the following reasons:
1.Again it's basically MARKET AWARENESS,SOFTWARE AVAILIBILTY AND THE COST OF THE DVD.
2.Why would the AVERAGE person buy a dvd-a disc for $25 and ignore theCHEAPER CD VERSION!.Well if that person owns a terrific sounding surround set-up then sure that person will most probably buy one,but that person doesn't represent the mass market.Sure DVD video has had tremendous growth but it's the video (movies)that'sdriving the market not the ability to play music.My theory is that dvd -a won't take off for basically the same reasons that SACD won't.MASS MARKET AWARENESS,COST OF DISC,COST OF CREATING A SURROUND SETUP FOR MUSIC,COST OF GETTING A DVD-A PLAYER.Since dvd is already in place as an excellent video playback medium,I think the cost of the disc will be a major hurdle for the average person.Watermarking will be the hump for the audiophile,besides the fact that the proper engineeering of these surround disc's will be crucial to audiophile acceptance of this format.Idon't think either of these issues will be resolved in the near future,or even at all.
WHAT SHOULD YOU DO NOW?
1.The current technology for cd players and cd engineering has progressed significantly in the past 3 years.My advise is to buy a good high end cd player right now!There are plenty to chose from ,be prepared to spend $3-$6 grand,but also be prepared to hear your cd's sound GREAT not good but really ,really GREAT!
Let's face it life is short ,the players are out there, start listening and buy one(no I'm not a manufacturer or salesperson)and start enjoying the hundreds or thousands of cd's you already own.
To all those vinylphiles,I think you face similiar problems.limted software,mass market REJECTION.and old technology which needs a significant $ expenditure for great sound,not to mention the care and maintance required to keep these puppies sounding tick and pop free. I think of vinylphiles as one would think of vintage car hobbists,it's cool if you don't mind the fuss(I doI think the old maxim that lp's sound better than cd's is becoming meaningless.good lp on good system =good sound. good cd on good system= good sound.Ironically I think vinyl will prevail over sacd and dvd-a,it's a small club but it has a history behind it that will guarantee it's longevity.
So IMO cd's and vinyl for quite some time ,both require some cash outlay for a really good playback but it's the NOW and that NOW will be around for at least the next 10 years.
joeavid
garfish
1,840 posts
 
Re: Rlwainrights question about CCR CDs. The new re-masters were done using JVCs 20Bit K2 technology which is just PART of the XRCD process, but the new CCR CDs sound much better than the old originals. I emailed Rl.

The new CCR CDs should be available in just about any full service music store, but please note that they are not specifically an XRCD disc. The XRCD technology is actually a "process" used from beginning to end to produce these superior CDs.

This is an interesting topic to kick around but nobody knows the outcome for sure-- I just hope it sounds good. I also hope CDs will be around for years to come. I've heard SACD on a good system and was not particularly impressed-- but no CD to do a direct comparison. The BEST digital I have ever heard is Jacintha's new XRCD2 on my own system. Cheers. Craig.
bbtuna
96 posts
 
I think we should all convert back to the original cutting edge medium...8 tracks

cd
unsound
7,332 posts
 
Untill Pioneer came out with players that could play both new mediums (too little, too late?) it forced the 1%'ers (consumers who must have cutting edge) to choose or buy both , in either case risking the embarssment of being suckered.
For the true pioneers ( the literal, not the company) a lack of digital out not only denied them copying but an uncompromised out put into digital room correction and equalization.
For the audiophile the lack of a digiatal out was an anathema. Thier past experience with early all in one digital players with cheap op-amps, weak power supplies and generally dissapointing performance had shown that the most improvement could be made with out board DAC's. The very same DAC's that now made thier vast libraries listenable. So much was made of the surround sound potential the new formats. But audiophiles knew that balancing 2 channels was challenging enough (and expensive enough). If asymetrical rooms provide the best sound tell me how you can balance a surround sound system where some speakers have more distance to the sides and others have more distance to the rear. Never mind that in this over populated world, how many people have a room large enough to sit in the center and allow for proper driver integration? IMHO opinion the only way to make this work at all (never mind just practical) is with room correction, but Duh thats not possable. I'm sure I'm not the only out here that argues
that I won't add anything that doesn't sound at least as good as what I have. Now I don't know about you but I can't justify the expense for, I don't know lets say 1000 recordings between them , many which I already own, and get this the majority of which haven't even been recorded with the very same technology they are trying to sell, in fact many were recorded with even older technology than the one they aim to replace. Lets also consider how they presented the current formats. Dolby Pro Logic, Dolby Digital, DTS, 96/24, CDR, CDRW, DVD, DVD A,DVD RAM, DVD Audio, SACD 2 Channel, SACD surround,coax,toslink,component, Progressive scan it goes on and on with more to come, but the compatability certanly doesn't. Now we have already been through Edison cylinder (brilliant, same speed all the time),33.3,45,78, reel to reel, 8 track, casette, el casette, mini disk, DAT, a boat load of quadrophonics, etc.,etc.. AT least to some degree there was a sense of evolution. Today everything is thrust upon the consumer as revolution. No wonder the consumer is skeptical. Perhaps we should take a deep breath and set up a forum amongst ourselves and decide what we want instead of being told what we want. As was posted earlier we have been the beta group all along. Enough is enough! Forgive my rantings, I'll step off the soapbox now.

sugarbrie
3,854 posts
 
Remember back when we were still using 18 to 20bit DAC chips and HDCD came out? HDCD was suppose to be the future. Then 24bit DAC chips came out that made standard Redbook CDs sound as good, and HDCD was almost gone overnight.

I suppose soon we will have our new 32bit redbook DAC chips that will sound as good as SACD. This will be the final nail in the coffin.

mrowlands
54 posts
 
I now have 53 SACDs, with 7 on the way. This is more than the number of CDs I bought in the first 12 years of it's existence. My LPs are wearing out; my SACDs shouldn't wear out in my lifetime. Please don't declare the end until there is no new hardware or software, which certainly isn't the case at the moment.

Mike R.
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