Best SACD player for the money - Marantz SA-11S1

Thanks, John_beavers. That is the kind of feedback I am looking for. The TAS review of the SA11s1 suggested it was at least as good as the Sony XA9000ES, which is saying something. I am considering a stand alone SACD/CD player and want a good one, but am not interested in mods at this point.

DCaudio, that's EXACTLY what I am talking about. Again, I do not doubt TRL's abilities or Paul's knowledge. Nor do I doubt the value of his mods. Perhaps Paul doesn't mod every player but he can/will mod many players, especially Sony models. Like I said, outside of something that completely makes the model not a good unit to mod, TRL can mod it and improve it.

What threw me off is that he told me he can mod my the 555ES yet didn't know it was a changer. When told that it was a changer he simply said "yes right". My idea is that he doesn't really know the exact unit that I'm talking about, but that's probably because it wouldn't matter to him because he would be able to mod it and improve it anyways. The question is in terms of absolute performance, what would be the best player to mod? It can't possibly be the 595 as he would have me believe before he found the Marantz. So my concern is that he initially told me the 595 would end up being better, which meant I might as well sell my player. But later when he told me that no he just modded a 555ES and was the best he has heard, I have to start wondering.

My belief is that TRL has had a lot of players come their way, and has learned a lot since the past few months. The thing is that TRL unlike many respected modders out there, is not selective. Which is great for us who want to keep their units but want to improve its performance for a modest price. But for those looking to rank players based on price, you won't get the type of answers that buyers generally seek out of TRL.

Howie-
You have a way of making things quite complicated.
No real secrets about how TRL ranks different units at this point:
The 595 is likely the best value at this point for price/performance. For a $150 stock unit plus the $550 mod you get one helluva player.
For a little more money, they can mod the Sony es2000 and you can get even a bit more performance according to those who have both machines.
Both the 595 and 2000 are highly regarded and the 595 has professional reviews-not just hacks like you and me yammering on our keyboard.

If you want to spend significantly more money, then the Marantz reference players are a favorite for TRL right now. According to people who have heard the TRL Marantz units, they do everything that the Sony's do and do it slightly better.

It is without a doubt a law of diminishing returns with incremental gains as you go up the food chain. Honestly, the 595/2000 modded players already get you in the major leagues. There are not huge leaps from there.

Other units do not have results that are quite as good as the reference Marantz units and they will gladly tell you.
They are not that crazy about universals, but can certainly improve them a great deal and have many happy customers of such machines who want to stick with what they have and just want it improved. They are not as impressed allegedly with Pioneers, for instance, as platforms as much as other brands- but again can improve them and make very happy customers.
They seem to prefer the newer Sony's due to their chipsets to slightly older Sony's but they can certainly improve them and have.

They are like any other modders-they have certain machines they think are better platforms than others. This also changes as they encounter different machines. He has a $10,000 retail stock unit somebody sent him this week. Who knows-maybe that will edge out those lowly Marantz $3500 reference units.

I guess I sort of am puzzled as to your comments that imply they are either confused about what they like and have tested-or that it changes from day to day.

Call him. Email him. You will get clear and honest answers. If you don't like what you hear-try somewhere else. Paul will not misrepresent information just to get your businees. He doesn't need to and he is just not that kind of guy. You forget that TRL has been around a long time and has a waiting list for SOTA preamps and amps they make.

There are many very competent modders out there and you can spend as little as a few hundred dollars or you can pay somebody to just use your case to fill with all new parts to build essentially a new machine for $5000. It is your money for sure.

I will say that I have never heard him report that the 555ES is "the best he has ever heard" as you now report. If that is the case, then sign me up. I think there is maybe some confusion there on your part, but you are best to email Paul for clarification.

I know all three men responsible for TRL's mods, Paul, his brother Brian (of Record Research Labs) and Brian's BIL, Joel Sherman. I've been on the phone with all three countless times over the past several months, (TRL has modified 3 SACD/CD players, 2 DVD video players, 2 line doublers and my 200 some pound Sony VPH-1272Q Data Grade CRT projector).

During these conversations, neither has ever called the 555ES "the best", if so I would have been told. So far, these guys have told me that they really like the Esoterics and Marantz players. The UX-1 and P70/D70 is out of reach for me currently, the SA-11 is not.

As Lkdog has mentioned, the 595 and 2000 Sony's offer bang for the buck. David Robinson (Editor of PFO) used to state that "SACD is master tapes for the masses". Well, I feel that TRL offers a great service to every pocketbook. $550 regardless of player. They spent 3 to 4 full days on my big Sony Data Grade projector, yet only wanted $550 for the mod. This when others charge thousands of dollars per unit. Maybe TRL should have followed the other Mod Shop guys out there and offered only one player, their "best" only. Instead, they are offering their mods on a wide variety of players ... anything from the $50 Toshiba 3960 to the $14K P70/D70 combo Esoteric. All at $550/unit.

BTW, Dcaudio, it looks as though you've been looking for a modifier for your 555 for over a year. Had a hard time deciding?

Let me clarify what I'm saying so you TRL fans don't attack me. I contacted Paul about 3 months ago, when they just finished the 595 mod. At that time, Paul considered the unit to be pretty much the best unit to mod. Like you said Lkdog, "the [595] modded players already get you in the major leagues. There are not huge leaps from there." From speaking to Paul, his idea is that the improvements in modding a better player than the 595 is supposedly so incremental (or didn't exist at that time), that he himself doesn't normally recommend it. We talk a lot about incremental improvements here on the board, but those increments are generally perceived as bigger than what you'll supposedly get by sending a few thousand dollars worth of a better player than the 595 to mod.

I guess I sort of am puzzled as to your comments that imply they are either confused about what they like and have tested-or that it changes from day to day.

Since they first finished modifying the 775, they now have a few other players that they consider to be even better. Now realistically, how long has it been since they first declared the 775 or even 595 to be the best to mod? How many units are now supposedly better? I am not implying that Paul is confused about what he likes, he is not. What I do believe is that he doesn't know many units out there (which is understandeable but yes his knowledge base is under constant improvement as he's exposed to more and more players) and so when he comes around to modding something better, he would declare that it is the about the best he's ever heard (afterall he modded it and even the 775 supposedly sounds like >22K). And I honestly don't see anything wrong with their opinions changing either as Paul did about the 555ES. Before he modified the unit he told me the 595 was the best. After he modified a 555ES, he told me his opinion changed and thinks the 555ES is the best. Now that they've modified other units, it's understandable that they're even better. Every unit that they mod is suppose to now be in the elite class of players. At with more players coming out, why am I the only one surprised that he would declare a player to be pretty much the best he's every heard, even if it's only for a day?

I don't mean to confuse at all. I was about to send my unit in and may still do so. I believe that for $550, there's nothing better. I was looking for something better than the 595 and was prepared to send in a more expensive player. But Paul discouraged it because at that time he didn't really have any idea what would be better than the 595. But if you are looking to have the best digital source and believe TRL does the best work, then why not send in the player with the very best chips (which are probably found in cheaper players) and the very best transport (which won't be found on cheaper players). That was my intention. I was going to pay $550 regardless, and I wanted to make sure I'm sending in the best player I can afford to mod. I had a hard time believing a $150 player was the best at that time. Honestly, how many people would be excited about sending a thousand dollar player when after the mods, it'll only be marginally better than the 595?

I like the idea of sending my player to someone who can make a $150 player sound like a $22K player. I don't like the idea of sending my player to someone who would turn my couple thousand dollar player into a $22,250 player when I could send him a $150 player and have him turn it into $22K player. That's what I'm trying to say.