How do you deal with vibration?

Hi J.D.,

Please allow me to make a distinction in reference to one of your comments.

J.D. said:

Any mass, sandbox, wood, stone, lead will store vibration and counteract the process you’re trying to achieve by releasing this stored energy back to the point of contact with the component.

Because of the ability of the bed of sand within the "sandbox" platform to change the destructive mechanical energy (vibration) into benign thermal energy (heat) it does not store and then release the mechanical energy back into the component as the other materials you mentioned will do. The friction at the contact points of the individual sand grains to one another is where the energy changes form (energy is never destroyed - it can only change form). My comment does presume that the "sandbox" is designed correctly, especially paying close attention to the interface between the component and the sand and the material from which the interface is made.

I would also like to note that all the "sandboxes" discussed on internet forums are copes of my original design, the Bright Star Big Rock, which I designed in 1985.

Best Regards,

Barry Kohan

The finest vibration control device I have found so far is the Vibraplane. The effects were immediate and obvious whereas most other products I have tried offer some to no effect. I also like Sistrum racks.

"To those who doubt the above rambling, fine, simply move on. Your comments are not necessary here, we know you exist and respect your opinion."

I spotted an incorrect item in your post, but okay. This is audiogon, not a place for disagreement.

Tvad; the results were simple to describe and quite stunning, clarity in the imaging within the soundstage. Better pace and tempo. The bass had better definition, was punchier and had better focus and location. Trebles were highly defined; and maybe a bit more air and very clean Midrange was three dimensional and again more focused.
Physically was the greatest surprise. My speakers are six feet tall and tend to vibrate quite a bit. Meaning if I put my hand on the side, I can feel the speaker move. Once on the Aurios the speaker vibration went away, not 100% but 95% at least, the speaker is virtually still. Now think about what I just said, if the speaker went from noticeable movement to virtually still. How do you expect that to affect the music? The vibration within the speaker without the Aurios would be greater than the movement of the tweeter when producing a note. If the vibration of the box holding the tweeter is greater than the tweeters movement, it makes sense that the note would be smeared or blurred. At any rate deformed in some way. So not only do my ears hear the difference, it even makes sense.

Nickway, excellent question! I struggled with this very issue for years while trying different DIY and manufactured products. If you are lucky enough to be in a basement, the issue is solved, I am not. For years I set my equipment spiked to the hearth of our fireplace. In my house the hearth is part of the masonry mass, not placed on top of the floor system. This worked well until I changed systems and moved my system from the short wall to the long wall. I set the racks on the floor, and was very unhappy to find the sound was less defined and the tempo/ pace had slowed a great deal. My audio friend (bass freak) was unhappy because the definition and dynamics were gone. We began trying all kinds of things, eventually I discovered Aurios. They were a breakthrough, but my concern, just like yours remained. What about the floor vibration? Before I answer that, let me quickly point out how the mass loading camp is amplified by the floor issue in that the floor vibration ends up being stored in the rack and shelves. Anyway, I ended up creating “earth” by putting my racks on a 4” sandstone base. I tried other stones, but liked the sandstone best. The stone was free in that they were scrap at a local stone yard. The sandstone slabs, (I have two, one under the cd player’s rack and one under the amps, pre-amp and power conditioner racks) about 120 and 240 pounds respectively. The sandstone slabs rest on high carbon steel balls and then on Aurios Pros. This isolates the floor from my “man made earth.” Now I hear you all. BUT THAT IS MASS! Right, my experiences have proven that both camps have there places, I’ll elaborate in a bit. The point now is this large mass is significant enough that the airborne and rack borne vibration is not enough to maximize the stones capacity. I kind of skipped the detail in that I hoped to keep my first post as short as possible. At the end of this post I’ll summarize in detail my system; I just didn’t want to be so wordy. If I put it at the end, people can skip it if they wish. Again, great question Nick, and I should have addressed it earlier.

Barry, I feel I tread on thin ice here, but my experiences have not been as good with “sandbox” type products as with other products. To be completely fair however, I should say my time with your Bright Star Audio product was limited to two nights. Generally I test my tweaks for months, not days, and generally I only change one thing at a time. In the case where I tried a friends Bright Star, we were messing around with a number of things. In my experience even messing around with interconnects will require time to settle back in. I imagine your product does too. In effect, I guess my sandstone base theory is in fact a giant size sandbox, so maybe it’s best if I do not specifically discuss your type product without more knowledge. In a way I’m doing to Bright star what I preach people do not do on this and other threads. Do not talk about what you do not know. Sorry Barry, my bad! I’m sorry.

My System in detail (taken from my review of the Aesthetix Calypso line stage)
. My system starts with a Sony SCD-1 (heavily modified by Richard Kern and Audiocom-UK) fed through a Great Northern Sound “Passive Audio Signal Isolator” into a Aesthetix Calypso line stage using Mullard 10M gold pin 12AX7 gain stage tubes. I then have two Plinius SA-102 amplifiers bi-amped vertically. Meaning one amp drives the bass and the second amp the mid-range and tweeters. Both amps are played in true class A. The speakers remain Dunlavy IV-A. (No longer manufactured) All interconnects and speaker wires are Nordost Valhalla. Power cables include Nordost Valhalla (SCD-1), David Elrod ESP-2 Signature (Pre-amp) and NBS Statement (amplifiers). I use two dedicated circuits with 8 ga. wires, one for the amps and one to a Shunyata Research Hydra power conditioner fed by an Anaconda power cord. Both Circuits use Wattgate 381 outlets.
My racks sit on 4” sandstone slabs that rest on Aurios Pro isolators. Both my Mana (SCD-1) and Apollo racks are spiked to the slabs. Each component sits on a shelf “sandwich” comprised of 3/8” Aluminum shelves resting on upturned spikes from the rack. I then use a sheet of anti-static “Bubble Wrap” with a Neuance shelf sitting on the “Bubble Wrap.” The Hydra uses EAR feet between it and the Neuance shelf. The SCD-1 and both amps are supported by three Orchard Bay titanium cones (no longer available) and Aurios Pro isolators. The Placette sat on its factory footers, the Aesthetix sits on a “Tightrope” isolation system that in turn sits on a Neuance shelf “sandwich” The Dunlavy IV-A speakers sit on #3 Black Diamond Racing pucks and #4 BDR cones that then sit on Aurios Pros. Both the base and midrange/tweeter binding posts use Walker Audio High Definition Links II. All cables are raised off the floor using Cable Elevators
I use AudioPrism Quite-line system on the refrigerator, computer and T.V. outlets to cancel line noise at the source. I have home made acoustic panels in the vertical corners with triangle panels at the ceiling corners. I have one round home made acoustic column between me and an untreated window. Other windows are treated with Marigo window dots and wool curtains. The wood floors have thick wool rugs. I use an assortment of Walker Audio brass and lead pucks on much of the equipment and on two wood furniture pieces in the room. My SCD-1 has a ten pound ½” steel plate treated with s anti-vibration coating on its top and sides and a rubber sheet glued to the bottom. It then sits on four round rubber disks. (feet) The 14’-6” x 20’-0” room is used only for the stereo and is isolated from the house with French doors. The doors are covers by acoustic panels on the room side to reduce the glass surface. The house side of the glass appears as natural glass in that there is a dark surface behind the glass. The speakers are placed on the long wall approx. nine feet apart and 1/5 into the room. The listening chair is 1/3 into the room. Behind the listening chair is a teddy bear collection (acoustic bears) with book shelves on each side. There are a number of other “acoustic bears” that have been positioned in very specific locations to help focus the system. (REALLY!) Now you all have the evidence needed, I am certifiably nuts.
As you may have guest, I’m a bit anal when it comes to my stereo, but I must defend myself by saying this system is that sensitive. The tiniest change in footers or isolation can make a major difference in some tonal aspect of the presentation. A two pound weight on the top of a component might create focus that was not present before, or it might create a smear or pace change that is unacceptable. I tell you this not to show “how great my system is, or how crazy I am,” but rather to help demonstrate that when I’m talking about improving the existing qualities, I’m not discussing whole sale alterations. I’m only looking for the final couple percent. The minutiae of system synergy, the stuff I’d be willing to say most of the people even here at Audiogon would find overboard, not to mention the masses. My friends think I’m nuts to try to get more from my system, but they continue to drop their jaw when a new power cord is introduced, or when I went from MDF shelves to aluminum shelves as the bottom layer of my shelf “sandwich.”
So as you might have guessed, changing a major component is big doings, and the changes can be difficult to resolve without the proper audition method and enough time to understand what we are hearing.

J.D.

He said..He said. How do we know the truth?. Well, why not make some measurements.

I put my PS Audio PS II outboard phono preamp (a high gain circuit that would most likely be affected by vibration) into a plastic hamper with a small speaker system and my calibrated SPL mic. I powered the speaker with a spare preamp and amp. For a signal (vibration creator)I fed in a 125 Hz warble tone. The two Behringer DEQ2496 (of my regular system) allow me to measure SPL (inside the box) and, simultaneously, the line out signal derived from the phono input coming from the outboard PS Audio preamp. Ideally this signal would be zero with no LP playing. The idea is to see how much signal can be generated by shaking the hell out of the phono preamp circuit.

Using the auxillary preamp, I cranked up the volume to 110 dB inside the box. Then I turned the warble tone OFF and ON, and observed the line out signal to be -77 dB rms in either case. In other words, the 110 dB SPL from a loudspeaker 3 inches from the circuit had absolutely no effect.

Then, to be sure that I was not making observations at too low a main system volume setting, I turned off the warble tone, relocated the mic to the listening room, and played a LP with the same volume setting (maximum)on my main preamp. The LP SPL for a moderately loud passage was 90 to 100 dB rms.

From this test I think I know the effect of vibration on an electronic circuit. What do you think? And why.
.