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Round Two: Best Speakers for LOUD music and rock??

Hi:

ROUND TWO, here we go.......

I listen to mostly rock, classic rock, female vocals, and the occasional dramatic symphony or opera, VERY LOUDLY.

I posted here before, and, taking everyone's comments into account, I purchased a used set of Genesis Vs.

They are great speakers, but failed for me in three critical areas: One, they seem to cause my amps to shut down at much lower volume than my present NHT 3.3s (even though the Genesis are rated as 3dB higher efficiency -- 90dB/4 ohms, as opposed to 87dB/4 ohms for the 3.3s), two, I cannot successfully couple these speakers to my room in such a way as to make the bass taut, dynamic and authoritative, and three, they do not image, in my room, as well as the 3.3s. Not even close.

My main system now consists of:

NHT 3.3s,
NHT SubTwo Subwoofer (60Hz & below only)
Cary 306/200 CD Player,
Sony XA 777es SACD player,
BAT VK5i preamp,
Audio Research M300mkII tube monoblocks,
MIT 750 Shotgun Tube Biwires,
MIT 350 Twin 30' ICs,
AudioZen Silver mkII I/Cs for front end.

I have a LARGE listening room with lots of glass & high sloping ceilings, app. 20x40 ft. w/18' ceilings.

I want to try again to upgrade my speakers, and I am considering a used pair of either Dunlavy SC-Vs, JM Mezzo Utopias, Legacy Focus, VMPS, Montana XP, Revel Ultima Studios, etc., etc.

My system is a tad bright right now, but not objectionably so. The imaging is stellar, and the soundstage depth is good, not great. I want smooth, rich, warm sound, yet detailed and clear, and as I said, I listen at VERY loud volumes for extended periods of time. I MUST have the slam and tight, low bass needed for the type of music I listen to.

Because of the size of speakers involved, I will obviously not be able to hear them with my system 'til I buy them, but, I guess I can just buy a good used pair here on Audiogon & sell them and try another pair if I need to.

Any comments/suggestions?

Thanks - Jeff
jeffj
foreverhifi
229 posts
 
I think you should try "hifiho's" recommendation about "bi-amping" the 3.3's before you sell them! You will definitley get more dynamic ease, slam, and impact with a dedited amp driving the bottom woofer!(bottom posts). However, my STRONG recommendation is to forget the tubes on the bottom, and use an excellent solid state amp to handle the bass. Parasound HCA3500 used makes the most sense of anything you could chose, as it has superb powerful bass at 350w/ch, and has VOLUME CONTROLS ON THE BACK for proper balancing with your tube amps! I doubt anyone in the hifi industry would argue with that recommendation for "bi-amp" puposes!
At least before you go dumping those excellent rock speakers(as passive speakers go), you should try it. Also, yes, doing powered subs set up well, and crossing over your 3.3's for "small" on your pre/pro(if you have one) would be something to try(still trying biamping however on the speakers).
Dunlavy's will be fast and accruate souding for rock, and might be a future try. But you should still give the 3.3's more "tinkering" before you let go...my suggestion.
Another strong candidate choice is what is offered in active speakers by ATC. But you can also get high end sound from "powered woofer speakers" like Infinity Prelude MTS's or NHT VT3's(rated as better than 3.3's in every respect(?)).
good luck
Good luck
jeffj OP
7 posts
 
Hi:

Thanks to ALL for the great posts and valuable input.

Regarding the suggestion to biamp, believe me, I've tried. That's why I modified the speakers (a factory production tech did it for me) to add a switch that can bypass the low-end crossover, if I wish.

I've tried both ways - using a pair of SS monoblocks and an outboard LP xover, and also just running an additional pair of amps straight in to the woofers/LP xover in the speakers. The problem was that I could not get the bass and mids/highs to sound seamless or full - I used a pair of 280 watt SS monoblocks. Weirdly enough, the speakers sounded MUCH better running full-range biwired. I mean, NO comparison. Using the second pair of SS amps, the bass was just awful. Present, yes, but either loose, sloppy and all over the place, or barely present. No matter WHERE the gain was set.

As a last resort, I have a third ARC M300mkII monoblock, and I've had an ad on here trying to buy a fourth one so I can try biamping with four of the identical monoblocks. No luck, so far, though....

Thanks - Jeff
phasecorrect's avatar
phasecorrect
2,013 posts
 
Most hi-end speakers...be it SPendor,Sonus Faber,Vandersteen,etc..do not perform well at moderately high listening levels...let alone "loud" levels...Im talking SPLs just above conversation level...they chuff,distort,and basically resort to one-note bass sounds...I am by no means a "balls to the walls" rocker...but I am not 60 yrs old either...every now and then I like to turn it up for "visceral" purposes...and for low distortion at hi-volume...Maggies are tough to beat...especially with a sub...they do "rock" alot better than what people give them credit for (1.6s anyways)
reb1208
518 posts
 
audition and be done with it. High-end speakers are not built to play rock w/out "blowing". The Focus 20/20 will not let you down. Other than that it's the Legacy Sig 3 or b+W naut 801. Good luck
aram
98 posts
 
Actually I liked Sogood51"s idea a lot;using two pair of Super Tower RSE..That idea sounds quite nice and also you have a really big room and using two pair of speakers is a good idea IMHO.
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