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room treatments? is it the room that's bright?

Hi

Tom from New Orleans, here goes with my novel,
please excuse the length

I've been refining my system with ic and speaker cable upgrades - Cardas,Harm Tech, Acoustic Zen, preamp upgrades - Arc LS 5, tube upgrades - pricey nos Telefunken and Siemans,Dac and transport upgrades - EVS MIllenium II and TEAC VRDS 10 transport and power upgrades - equitech balanced power on my front end.

All have made nice improvements. I've been moving steadily toward good imaging, resolution and natural tonal balance.
I've always tried to move towards more musicality - tonal balance, naturalness, air and warmth.

Unfortunately it may be my room that's my guilty culprit for a slightly bright mid and high end, and I don't have a lot of experience in taming that.

I have a 27 by almost 15 by 8 room, hallways on both ends and my speakers are along the long wall, leather couch opposing in a couple foot notched out area (small closets from other rooms notched in on the ends of the hallways).

The speakers are almost 2 feet away from the walls, set in 9' equilateral triangle with the listening area - imaging is very nice (even with a Proton tv on my cwd lowboy equipment cabinet, back a little from the front of the speakers). Floor is carpet (older), walls drywall with drymount music posters on them, ceiling spackled - no special room treatments

The speakers are Von Schweikert Vortex screens - basically a VR4. they are large floor standing. Their tonal balance is good, acoustic instruments sound nice - I play acoustic guitar. I thought maybe the titanium teeters may be the culprits and I've been considering upgrading to VR4se at $6000 or another neutral speaker, but I'm now think my room may be the biggest culprit and would like to take care of that first. At lower volumes things sound nice tonally, but get a little shrill at higher 'more resolving' volumes. I also have a pair of B&W Matrix 2's to compare, which are nice, but they have more cabinet resonance and don't disappear or image as well in the room.

Imaging is great in the room, I went to great detail in the setup, the speakers disappear nicely (a trait I like) and the image is well beyond and behind the speakers (these speakers are designed for true phase coherence.
But things appear to be a little brighter at mid and high freqencies at mid to higher volumes than I'd like. If I am listening in the room behind this room the tonal balance sounds absolutely wonderful even on sax, horns etc(of course imaging suffers).

Is it the room? Is it too reflective that is causing the slight brightness in the mids and highs?

I did an extensive search here on room treatments and I'd like to hear a few more suggestions. I'm single so I don't have the WAF factor, but I don't want anything too hideous looking in the room.

I'm probably less inclined to do a diy project like at David Risch's site, but would be interested in finding some asthetically pleasing but not too expensive room treatments to tame the high and mid freq. Perhaps absorbtion panels on ceiling first arrivals and back wall arrivals, maybe diffusion behind. The low frequencies seem rather nice, so maybe I don't need to go the corner trap route first, plus I have an old wood victrola in corner. I'd prefer something that would be removeable later for resale purposes.

Any suggestions on manufacturers, particularly those not too pricey, who make high quality products that can slightly tone things down? Anybody work with your dimensions or recommend full room treatments based on them? Any elegent or easy DIY projects?

It's distrubing to think that I've ignored my room all this time, when it's more than likely the biggest factor. Doh!

thanks a lot

Tom

thanks

Tom

Can anyone suggest
128x128audiotomb
audiotomb's avatar
audiotomb OP
1,112 posts
 
Thanks for all the imput so far.

I bought the SPL from Radio Shack and am awaiting the test discs in the mail

I tried the clap tests and get a clap with some overtones from the walls (not a long delay seperate echo but a spread out clap) then there is a reflective sound maybe 1/4 to 1/2 sec after that rises in pitch/volume and seems high freq. This may be a reflection from the glass on my cd cabinet (I think I'll remove the glass and see if things improve.)
cdc
1,668 posts
 
The analog RatShack SPL meter is better - shows peaks better due to faster response. I tape mine to a wooden cloth drying rack as reflections from your body / sofa etc. will affect frequency response.
As people have said, 1st reflections are importnant to fix but I had glass windows behind my speakers and putting blinds over them helped some too. Also carpeting on floors.
What I did was masking tape heavy blankets to all the walls and put some on the floor. This is a cheap experiment but blankets may not attenuate the harmful frequencies. For that you can buy absorbing pads tuned to absorb certain frequencies.
One other thought, if your amps produces it, your speakers will too. If the source or amp is the problem, room treatment can't do much to fix the problem which is already there. But this is my unscientific opinion and may not have any merit.
bluefin
111 posts
 
Hang blanket(thick one) around the wall, and see if the echo from clapping hands disappear or getting less. The brightness should be gone if it is the cause. You can even find specific area of wall is crucial. Congratulations! a few hundred bucks of treatment will make your $$$ set up sound like the price tag should be. If you don't mind the look, 100 or 200 bucks may be enough. If you or your family care a better looking room, get some pro-look stuff.
This is most efficient tweek IMH, much better than people arguing about which CD player is beter. A good treatment will make all CD's/LP's sound better.
audiotomb's avatar
audiotomb OP
1,112 posts
 
I brought a pair of JM Labs 926 home to audition this weekend. Like the Von Schweikerts they disappear and image well in the room.

These also sound congested at higher volumes. Quieter passages especially with acoustic guitars or piano sound tonally correct and more vibrant passages sound congested and are harder to listen to for long periods of time

Sounds like I may need to treat the room - slap echo effect?

I need to run the radio shack/stereophile frequency tests to see the spectrum end
audiotomb's avatar
audiotomb OP
1,112 posts
 
I did the spl tests with the stereophile cd and found distinct differences between the 3ft away source and the listening position. Will post later (at home). Not sure I believe all the distinct differences and want a second source test to verify

Rives I ordered your test cd and the Cara room software

Will investigate tube traps for the corners, absorbtion and removing all glass possible from the room.

Tom
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