Thiel replacements

Wow, I agree with all of the above recommendations, I would try no toe at all, space the the room in thirds or fiths for placment from front wall. Last, the 3.5's are a very old design maybee its just time to upgrade them. Though this should NOT fix the problem you are having. My last thought is room treatments, I didnt see you list any. The room is as important if not more than the equipment. I have seen mid-fi equipment sound great in a good room and great equipment sound poor in a bad room. Hope this helps.

P.S. I also agree with the MIT cables, contact Joe Abrams here on Audiogon.

I have 3.6's, and they image very well, but as others have alluded, are very sensitive to upstream gear. For soundstage, I found the biggest improvement in my system by upgrading the amps. After auditioning several amps, I ended up buying a pair of Theta Enterprises, and they present a very deep and wide soundstage with my Thiels. Instruments are well placed, and you really don't hear the speakers at all. In fact, if you close your eyes, you really can't hear them at all, though most of the soundstage is between the speakers. I have mine about 11' apart, and my listening position is about 10' from each. For speaker cables, I tried lower end MIT, but wasn't happy, so I upgraded to Cardas Neutral Reference, and I am very happy with them.

Tom.

Quick 2 cents, this may help. Thiel's are very "revealing" speakers- that is their strenght. With most average electronics most people would find them rather forward and flat sounding, but if you want a speaker that is capable of revealing detail in certain electronics, that is where the thiel comes in. Above is right, they are very sensitive to speaker cable, but I would look at it as capable of getting the best out of certain speaker cables that other speakers have a harder time with. Same with amps.
The theils, especailly are not the wide, smooth soundstage kings, but rather are very good at revealing components that are.
Sorry if this is too long winded, and I should note that I am not the Thiel expert, I have experienced exactly what you are describing with those speakers. Also should note when I fiddled, listening position was height sensitive, that made a big difference.

I have thiels also. My experience has been similar to tombowlus and basement's. Every upgrade to my system has resulted in enhanced imaging and soundstage. They included DAC, interconnects, power conditioning, tube preamp, and power amp. Currently my speakers are sitting 12 feet apart and 14 feet from the sitting position. The soundstage begins about 1-2 feet outside of the speakers and spans the entire space between. The only time I hear music obviously coming from the speakers is when it was recorded that way.

Thanks for all the good info so far, although it's not exactly what I wanted to hear.

I moved the speakers apart another 1'+ and moved my seat back about another foot. It did seem to help a little, but its not there yet. Instruments that were before cluttered around the center image have been moved out slightly and have a little room to breath. On recordings where instruments are placed further away from center, though, the sounds seem to still be coming directly from the speakers.

I can't position the speakers along the long wall because the listening position will not be far enough away. The way I have it now is the best it's ever going to get (room wise). I may try some different cables, though, if I can find somewhere that will loan them to me.

I tried switching the polarity on one speaker, and it obviously made the situation worse. It sounded like a mess. It was very fatiguing and nerve wracking, even after a minute of listening. The center image was gone, but it would come back slightly if I switched to mono. Is this consistent with others' observations when switching the polarity on one speaker?

Now, to answer a few questions that have been asked...

Vader, the only room treatment I have is on the front wall between the speakers.

Drubin, the speakers are new (to me), and they have never worked for me. It's tough for me to say what I like about the Thiels. I can say that they are much too harsh, though. They could really use some calming down. Any thoughts?

David, the bass EQ was bad... made horrible noise (actually just a buzz).

I'm already using spikes. I noticed that these helped bass tighten up.

So, of the guys who have owned Thiels in the past... what do you own now? I'm also wondering what speakers would be similar performance wise for about 1K used that would work in a smaller room like mine AND work with my equipment. I listen to jazz and jazz based rock music mostly.

Please keep the info coming. I'm learning a lot about Thiels from this thread!