Thiel replacements

Exertfluffer,
I agree with you when you say i have an "acoustically" larger room than 13X8 because of the opening in the wall where the left speaker is. The opening is 6' wide, and the speaker is more of less centered in it. The ceiling is 8'. The right wall has no treatments, and the rear wall has another opening that is 4.5' wide and almost centered behind my listening position. The front wall actually has a small couch along it, and the "treatments" are big pillows standing up on top of the couch's back. It sounds ridiculous, i know, but i'm just playing around here. The room is in a state of disarray because i'm trying to get the stereo to work.

What do you mean when you say that the right speaker is getting a double reflection back to my ears immediately after the direct response from the speaker? i know one reflection comes from the wall... where does the other one come from?

Ozfly, I have no opportunities to borrow different equipment as i don't know anyone who is into audio.

Gnobber, I don't think there are any big problems with either one of the speakers. I talked to Shari at Thiel about this, and she told me to do the pillow test. Short of driving the Thiels to Kentucky for testing, it's the only way to see if something is wrong. Anyway, she told me to get a soft pillow and cover all but one driver and listen closely and carefully with my ear right up to the driver. If you hear clean, clear sound, the driver is good. I did this for all six drivers and nothing seemed awry. At this time I was using a very old cd player, and she thought that was most likely the cause of the problem I was having. She was partly right. When I put the new player in I at least noticed center images which I did not have before.

"double reflection"...I'm sorry, this is a mistake. I mean you're hearing a "double image" with the reflected info(assuming bare wall next to your right speaker) coupling with the direct sound from your speaker back to your ear! If left unchecked, you will hear a smeared less than accurate sounding image. Your left speaker may be giving differnt results. HOwever, if you are getting an image off of your left wall between you and your "6' opening", you will have same problem there. And yes, the opening is affecting the response and imaging of your speaker. But, the right wall is giving other problems being next to your speaker untreated. Really you don't want any reflective surface right next to your speaker mostly. This has some sonic consequences/challenges.
Also, the opening behind your chair is a challenge.
"Master Handbook of Acoustics" will tell you (as with many respected acoustical engineers (consult Russ Herschelmann, Rives Audio, PMI, etc) that putting speaker and chairs infront of "opening" to other rooms will cause some strange response issues in your sound. This must be considered. Basically, you want even and "flat"(or close as you can) response from ALL speakers from your listening possition. This is a major problem with your likely "less than ideal" set up. You'll also have to adress the "first order reflection points" (including ceiling if you dont' sit close enough...which is a problem with Thiels, because they are simple 1st order 6db crossovers, which need room to build) .
My suggestion, change things around or you'll have limitations. Using onother set up or room might be your best bet, even if it means smaller speakers. The room and setup is over 50% of the performance. You need to know what's going on.
Also, from your description, I presumed a flat 8' ceiling. Sitting back too far also adds some challenges to for you with those speakers!
You might want to tinker with these speaker in a nother set up situation to compare. Good luck. Better yet, email www.rivesaudio.com and pay for a consultation/room fix! Otherwise, you can do what many do, and that's go through gear to no end, and you still have a poor room setup problem!!!(you must single handedly identify your "culprits"). ex

Thanks for passing on your accumulated knowledge, Ex. Your advice is helping me as well. My room is even more of a mess than Kevin's (I think), with two hallways, and a doublewide sliding glass door leading off of it, but worst of all, with an open archway right behind my listening position. After messing with location, I have my Thiels setup where the imaging is very good, but the bass response of that room has always been pathetic. A Velodyne DD-12 has greatly helped that problem, though. I'm now down to looking into room treatments to fine tune a bit. Your comments have given me some good ideas and inspiration. Great point about endless gear upgrades that are really a fruitless attempt to correct for room anomalies.

Thanks again for sharing, Tom.

I like it when a post brings out a real expert on a particular subject. Thanks Exertfluffer.
My room is very similar to yours. It is my living room and it is about 11x20 with an opening about 5x6 on the right side, about 3' from the front, and a couch on the opposite side wall. I also went through similar pains in that I moved in and made changes to my equipment at the same time.
I am using vandersteens which are really opposite thiels as far as their strengths and weaknesses, but I soon found out that I had to accept that my listening room going to have a lot of comprimises. My speakers are way off center toward the right side, and each one has a different toe-in, which I play with occasionally to depending, But what I am really saying is that it took me a while to get used to my new room before I could get used to what I was hearing. I had to get used to some comprimises in what I could achieve before I could actually make it sound good (i.e. sacrifising width for a more balanced, or blended sound, and sacrifising some of the balanced presentation to let each speaker sound better).
Perhaps we could use some tips? Some thoughts or ideas on how do deal with a room such as this would be really helpful.

Basement, can you say anything about the process you went through in arriving at the sacrifice tradeoffs you chose? Where do you begin?