Thiel replacements

The system was going to be in the room I spend the most time in, with me, that was first. When it came to where I was going to put my furniture and put my system, I ended up with what I have now because I realized that the system would need a certian amount of space to function properly and function in a way that I could listen to it while I lived in my living room, so I basically started by laying out my living room around my stereo because it would be my main source, but also taking into account I wanted to be comfortable with the whole room.
The main thing I take into account is that no matter where the listening chair is, the speakers and the room must interact with each other, so I mostly concentrate on the interaction between the speakers and the room. Because there is a big 'hole' in one side of the room, the speakers to not behave the same on the two sides (nor the room). I try to adjust each speaker so that it interacts with the room at its best, while at the same time adjusting for the interaction of both. This leaves me with a main listening seat that is not perfectly center, and not perfectly balanced between the speakers.
My listing recliner is to the left of the toe in of both speakers, and closer to the left speaker than the right. Since I haven't been able to get a balanced, centered presentation without gross negative overreactions from placement, I abandoned that idea temporarally, so I could just get the speakers and the room working better. I pretty much stopped there.
I am aware and of the opinion that a speaker will sound its best according to how it reacts to its placement in the room, and both the size of the room and the sound pressure, as well as other sources (the other speaker or a sub) interacting as well. I am also aware that there is always a "sweet spot" where these aspects come together at a certain place. I have really abandoned the sweet spot and adjusted for the former to make my listening position better.
While I am satisfied for now, I know that there is possibly, problably, more I could do, and that there are others more experienced and knowledgable than I, so my interest is peaked.
I agree that before ketchup replaces the theils, it would be better to finish or concentrate on the room and the speaker placement, since that is so important to getting the most out of any speaker, and since the theils are so revealing, that would evan make dealing with the room that much better. Since my room is so similar, that makes me interested as well, not to mentions how many other similar situations exist and what we could all learn.

I agree with almost every point in the messages above. I have had 2.2's (an older design like yours) for about 10 years.

What you have described is so foreign to my experience that I suspect something is wrong with your equipment. In my experience Thiels are one of the great coherent, disappearing speakers. However they must be set up properly. Thiel recommends they be faced straight forward with no toe-in. But I liked them best when they were toed in just a few degrees. Absolutely didn't like them pointed directly at the listening area.

Also, in my experience they need some space behind them to breathe. Where the Martin Logan image is forward and in your face (for example), the Thiel image is 3D behind the speakers, and almost never up to the plane of the speakers. To get this effect I couldn't have them up against a wall. Mine needed several feet behind them, and I typically kept them 5-7 feet into the room. I never had much of an image past the side of the speakers (except Q-sound recordings).

I was getting ready to upgrade them last year (seeking additional detail and dynamics) so I took them into a dealer to compare them to B&W N801s. When I put them on the expensive Krell/Wadia gear they improved so much I upgraded every other component in my system first.

You might test them at a dealer (any dealer with a larger room), and if they still don't work then ask an electical technician to check your cross-overs.

Best wishes to you in your journey.

I have had a somewhat similar experience to Akaddict's. When I decided to upgrade my amps (I had two Adcom GFA-555II's in bridged mono), I took my 3.6's into my dealer and tried them with a number of amps. With a Krell source and Spectral pre (and hugely expensive MIT cables), the 3.6's were able to reveal every detail and nuance of each of the amps used with them. I couldn't believe how good they sounded with the Theta Enterprises, and even though it might seem like overspending on the amp side in relation to the cost of a pair of 3.6's (which I had previously acquired used), I figure that if the 3.6's can reveal all the good things that the big Thetas are doing, and sound fantastic in the process, then why worry?

You will often hear about how Thiel speakers are revealing with regard to their associated equipment. While it is true that they may highlight other system flaws, I can say from firsthand experience that when you associate them with great gear, Thiels will let you hear how good this "great gear" is. I find that very impressive, myself.

Tom.

Ketchup - what room treatment do you have between the speakers? If it's foam or absorbing that may be causing a grouping not allowing the soundstage to spread out. That has been the case for me - I now have a dispersion treatment between mine. The biggest difference for mine is the spread between the speakers, they need room. Mine are 10.5 feet apart and I wouldn't mine getting another foot but I would be under 3 feet from the side walls. When the spread is the greatest the soundstage is phenomenal - very holographic. Tombowlus - how much room do you have from the sidewalls to the speaks? good luck ketchup

Pops - I have a terrible room, from an acoustics perspective. Past my left speaker, it opens out into two hallways (one continuing along the same plane as the front speakers, and one running at a 90 degree angle heading behind and away from the listening plane), and the remainder of the room also opens up off to the left. On the right side, I am closer to the wall, about three feet from the side, perhaps slightly less. The speakers themselves are about 11-12 feet apart, and they are about 18" from the rear wall (I might be able to get another couple of inches before WAF and fear of toddlers become the controlling factors).

In my room, with some rearrangement of furniture (but no dedicated sound treatments), and with the addition of a Velodyne DD-12 sub (which allows for a great deal of tweaking), I have my Thiels sounding "pretty darn good" to "very good." If you are wondering, yes, my room has huge bass issues, as in addition to those two hallways, my rear wall is really an archway, and I also have a very large sliding glass door along one wall. Plus, I have a very high, sloping ceiling. Without such issues, the 3.6's certainly do not require a subwoofer. However, in my dealer's room (which is not ideal, being an older building converted to use as an audio retailer, but is fairly well treated), the same or similar associated gear with my 3.6's is "extremely impressive" to "awesome." Obviously, I am using my own subjective scale, here, but the bottom line is that in a well adjusted room, with quality (and synergistic) associated equipment, Thiel speakers (especially the 3.6's, IMHO) will really show off what the rest of the gear can do, even when the associated equipment costs much more than the Thiels.

As always, though, your mileage may vary.

Tom.