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Warm, Smooth yet Transparent Amp

Hello All,
I am currently running an Arcam AVR300 for movies and music, 60/40 respectively. The music portion just isn't happening. Everything works but I'm not getting that "involved/pull you in" kind of feeling. I have gone through several pairs of speakers, Proac tablette 50, Triangle Titus 202, Von Schweikert VR1s and currently Vandersteen 1C. Since this is a wide array of speakers, I've come to the conclusion it must be the amplification.

So now I'm thinking of adding a 2 channel amp running out of the front channels "out". I don't like harsh, shrill highs, but rather a fuller, sweet sounding, yet transparent. Is this possible without spending several thousands of dollars? I am trying to keep it under 1200.00 so used but quality is what I'm hoping for. If Possible. I know that all of you knowledgeable people would have an answer.

I'm also running an Oppo 83 blu ray/cd. Dish K722 receiver for TV. Listen to FM, CDs and MP3 through the Oppo. I'm looking for all the things I have read about on these forums over the years. Good Imaging, transparency, involving. I've read good things about Conrad Johnson MF2250 (affordable used) and I just missed out on one on Ebay, earlier today. Now I'm just frustrated I guess.

Please assist if you can. Oh, I like folk rock, rock, certain new age kind of music. Examples, Dave Matthews, Eric Clapton, Sarah McLaughlin, and everything in between, *chuckle*. Any and All suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Bruce
denon53
ddd1
261 posts
 
Not sure I agree with your "conclusion it must be the amplification" (without having seen your room, that is).

If you are mixing audio and video and your speakers are flanking a reflective screen and placement dictated by "where the screen is" (not to mention what your wife thinks) then changes in amplification might be dwarfed by bad room placement and lack of room treatment.

I would keep everything the way it is and borrow a better amp before spending your own money.
marqmike
850 posts
 
Hello Denon53
Like Charlesdad I think transparency comes from a lack of distortion so it can result in a more transparant and warmth of tone when those things are in the recording. I think the more transparency results in closer to the live natural sound. It's without as many artifacts that distort the sound weather in the higher frequencies or somewhere else and let the original sound come through less molested. A lot of times this allows something to stride that fine line and become more musical without losing anything at the same time. So in this context transparency won't add warmth but it will let what warmth the recording caught that the musician intended come through best. And that is not an easy feat for a lot of electronics Instruments can create a warm sound, a strident sound, a dissonant/discordant sound, ect. No doubt we are all familiar with them. So with that being said I would recommend a Belles 150 amp. When available can go for used in the neighborhood of 700.00. It is decently transparent. It can convey recorded warmth. It has sins of omission because it might be slightly less detailed in comparison to others but it had no noticeable sins of commission. It produces sounds which can be quite natural. But all components have different interactions with other components so you may have a different result than what is suggested on this thread.
denon53 OP
66 posts
 
Charles, your explanation is probably the closest to what I have always believed a good system should be. I'm 60 now and have always believed that the ultimate goal for an audio system is to reproduce the music as if you were sitting in the room when it was being recorded. So to now find out that most audio nuts are really trying to distort that realism, as John says, is deflating. LOL I'll live. I understand both of your explanations but Charles's is closer to what I'm looking for. I also realize it's not an easy feat, thus this thread. So far I have found that exaggerated upper midrange/treble sound which John speaks of. I'm looking for what Charles describes. Marqmike hits on it as well. No exaggerated treble, no bloated bass, but all natural like the full sound of a good acoustic guitar when all strings are strummed at once. Forte heh? Belles? I've read many good things about Belles and Forte has been around for a long time has it not Charles? I think we're heading in the right direction guys.

As for my room, it's very open. My listening area is what I believe use to be the dining room, it sits between an open living room to my left and my master bedroom and sunroom to my right. All very open. Carpet on the floor couch, loveseat to my left. I sit in a recliner in the area that is about 22' x 15' with the sides very open. I'm sitting about 15' from my system, 52" LCD TV high up on far wall. I hope this all helps. I will be using the arcam for a preamp, or did you already figure that out? lol

Any additional suggestions are still welcomed. And I thank all of you who have already written a reply. It's all good!
If this made no sense, it's only because it was a long day and I'm bushed! lol I almost forgot, I also have a REL T3 sub that is part of the system.
Bruce
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
Warm, Smooth yet Transparent Amp

Hello All,
I am currently running an Arcam AVR300 for movies and music, 60/40 respectively. The music portion just isn't happening. Everything works but I'm not getting that "involved/pull you in" kind of feeling. I have gone through several pairs of speakers, Proac tablette 50, Triangle Titus 202, Von Schweikert VR1s and currently Vandersteen 1C. Since this is a wide array of speakers, I've come to the conclusion it must be the amplification.

12-09-13: Denon53
I will be using the arcam for a preamp, or did you already figure that out? lol

Bruce, I hate to say it, but I don't think you will find music to be "happening", or to "pull you in" as you say in your original post, as long as you are using the Arcam AVR300. You say you've tried different speakers with no luck, I don't think that trying different amps while still using an Audio/Video receiver as a preamp will help either.

Over a decade ago I tried to marry my audio and video systems with many high end Surround Sound Processors (SSP) from the likes of Mark Levinson, Classe and Krell. I never found any of them to be musically satisfying. I finally gave up on that quest, and now use a dedicated two channel system for music that is very satisfying.
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Denon53,
I appreciate your comments and I understand what you're seeking.
Given your stated budget and solid state preference I'm sure there are
experienced people on this site who can provide good guidance. I've
migrated so completely (and happily) into the world of SET-High efficiency
speakers that I'd be of very limited use for your particular needs.
I agree with John's opinion on the Arcam as a preamp. You need
components that were developed with the priority of reproducing quality
two channel music. I've read good things about Belles and Forte
components. Would you entertain the possibly of a Quicksilver or
Bottlehead(modest priced but very good tube products) preamp with you
SS amps?
Charles,
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