2. amps-preamps
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Pre + Amplifier Recommendation

Hello All,

First let me say I have spent countless hours researching what may or may not be the right combo for me and my listening preferences - the reality is that there are so many options I am likely more confused now than before, though not from a lack of effort.

So, I have Dali Helicon 400's and listen primarily to rock / folk indie primarily, but do listen to most genres. I have a Cary SLI-80 with upgraded tubes and it sounds great, but lacks a bit of power when i want to turn it up and i am wondering if in addition to increased power i could move up the food chain a bit and get something even better, so long as better is not in the five digits.

I prefer tube sound to any solid state I've owned or heard to date, and my primary concern is being engaged in the music not hearing every last detail, thought that is neat as well.

Was thinking maybe a set of used Cary 805AE units, but fear they may not have enough power. VAC ? BAT ? Quicksilver ? Coincident ?

Or should I start over with new speakers as well? Daedalus Argos look pretty cool and are seemingly more efficient, may open up the options on amplification?

Look forward to your suggestions and thanks in advance.
juggernaut850
zd542
5,339 posts
 
"10-17-14: Mattmiller
O that's not true....I listen to very simple acoustic to solo piano and jazz and rock and classical...name a classical musician from old and I have it on vinyl. My point is: That a lot of people will obtain very high quality gear/sound and they don't listen to it...they just don't listen past the 1st 10 watts. So I think they are really missing out on the true musical event. Thanks.

Matt M"

I'm not sure what you are saying here. If someone goes out and buys very high quality, expensive equipment,why wouldn't they listen to it? Most people aren't even aware high end audio exists.
tls49's avatar
tls49
1,351 posts
 
My point is: That a lot of people will obtain very high quality gear/sound and they don't listen to it...they just don't listen past the 1st 10 watts.
I’m sure he is saying they listen at a low level, however the reference to 10 watts is only correct with a low sensitivity speaker. 10 watts on a high sensitivity speaker would be very loud.
I have a Cary SLI-80 with upgraded tubes and it sounds great, but lacks a bit of power when i want to turn it up
Juggernaut850, keep in mind that the speaker/power relationship is not linear and works on a logarithmic scale. To achieve a 3db increase requires a double of amp power. So going from the 80w Cary to a different 100w tube amp will not solve the problem. That is an increase of less than 1db, and will have little to no effect on the underpowered problem.
Maybe speakers will be the next move...
Using a speaker with a higher sensitivity can solve the problem. The sensitivity of the Daedalus Argos is 9db higher than the Dali Helicon 400, 97db compared to 88db. Now if you use the 80w Cary on the Daedalus, this will have the same relationship as 640 watts on the Dali’s. So, even using the Cary in the 40w triode mode would still be plenty of power for the Daedalus if you want to turn it up.
zd542
5,339 posts
 
"Juggernaut850, keep in mind that the speaker/power relationship is not linear and works on a logarithmic scale. To achieve a 3db increase requires a double of amp power. So going from the 80w Cary to a different 100w tube amp will not solve the problem. That is an increase of less than 1db, and will have little to no effect on the underpowered problem."

For that to hold true in a real application, the amps would have to be built and measured exactly the same way. For example, 2 different 100 watt amps made by different companies will not put out the same amount of power. Also, there are other factors involved in volume than just doubling the power to get 3 db more.
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Tls49,
+1. Depending on the speaker used, 1-10 watts is all you'd ever require. On the other hand there are speakers where 300 watts of power is inadequate under certain conditions. High current capability is sometimes more of a factor than the wattage of an amplifier. The speaker's design characteristics determine the appropriate matching amplifier.
Charles,
tls49's avatar
tls49
1,351 posts
 
For that to hold true in a real application, the amps would have to be built and measured exactly the same way. For example, 2 different 100 watt amps made by different companies will not put out the same amount of power.
Zd542, Not sure what you mean by this. Can you explain?
Also, there are other factors involved in volume than just doubling the power to get 3 db more.
Other than room and listening distance, then what?
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