Calling all Horn lovers

I made the jump to horns about 7 or so years ago, after 3 decades of electrostats. Great dynamics, and 'jump' (as mentioned) with the same level of openness and transparency as the stats. Getting the associated equipment right was key to making them work, partly because of the noise level of some of the components I used with less efficient speakers, and partly due to gear synergies. With the Lamm ML2, my Avantgardes really started to make music. Improving/changing gear further upstream also seemed to improve the integration between the horn mid and dynamic self-powered woofers, which was originally one of the shortcomings, at least in my set-up.(I would love to have a full-on horn system, with horn woofers.) One of the things I like about the Avantgarde is that is no crossover between the amp and the midrange horn.

With everything 'just so' the performers are much more 'in the room' and the issue of 'imaging' or 'soundstage' is less of a factor, so this is a huge plus, overall; system or AC noise and sorting out associated equipment, at least for my rig, was the negative, as was integration between bass and mids, but I've managed to get the system to a level that is now extremely enjoyable, very vivid, tonally rich and not strident. Of course, part of that also depends on the source material, but as the system has improved, I'm able to enjoy a wider range of material- some of it isn't 'demo' quality, but I'm far more engaged in the music, which is what it is ultimately about.
PS I still have all my old electrostats, ribbon tweets, and other vintage stuff, and will probably get all that restored at some point for a vintage system or two.
PPS I've heard people snark about how nasty horns can sound, and they can, if not set up right and used with the gear that brings out their best.

Whart,

Beautiful system and room you have, I'm sure it sounds fantastic.

Shakey

There are many products that are a bag of mixed compromises to come out with a semblance of neutrality. These "band-aid" products never can be as good as a design that does not use matching colorations to cover up errors (or compromises) in design, as each resonance or distorion destroys detail which can never be recovered. Only the tonal balance can be brought to a more realistic balance, the lost transparency and detail is lost forever.

This is the type of product an above poster is referring to when he says "Part of the art behind a successful horn is incorporating its colorations in a way that is consonant with the music rather than at odds with it."

He should have said "part of the art behind salvaging a flawed design and making it sound OK is .......at odds with it."

There are horns whose diaphragms are under control, whose throat design is good, whose phase plug really works with the design, and whose horn is correct for the frequency range and is non-resonant. These designs measure very low in distortion and need no band-aids such as the poster describes.

So many posts like that are garage pontification by guys who are not designers, who do not know the physics and math, who don't design high performance products, who don't have a multi-decade background of cause/effect experience by testing their own designs as well as those of others to go with their physics or engineering background, yet write as if they do know it all. And their posted information is very misleading, although their original intent may be good.

Proper horn drivers can be exceedingly low in distortion, and as a result sound sweet, smooth, yet highly detailed and dynamic. Playing around with some putty on Klipsches and making category-wide statements proves nothing. It's merely anecdotal at best, pertaining to a limited number of speakers that are far from state of the art.

Get a good listen to some really well done TAD systems, Tannoy studio monitors, JBL Everests, JBL 1400, Classic Audio Reproduction, Magico horns and you'll hear a wide variety of sound whose traits don't conform to the type of horn colorations that a couple of posters are saying are a fundamental trait of the driver type. These claims are not true. Note that Klipsch is not on the list. I don't want to offend Klipsch lovers, they do have their strengths. And the mix/match game might be able to achieve a nice sound. But most folks' gut feel about horns comes from experience with Klipsch or Avant Garde being driven by solid state, or from lousy, over-driven horn PA systems.

I have no monetary connection with horns, I don't sell them, I own some very expensive non-horn speakers, my list of 5 best speakers on the market include some non-horn designs.

Rather, I'm interested in super high end reproduction from any type speaker, and getting good information out there.

Kiddman,

I was one of the devout anti-horn guys and it was a lowly Klipsch that opened my mind to the possibilities. All it took was a pair of Cornwalls to unseat my Reference 3a Grand Veenas. And six months ago you couldn't make me believe I would give them up for anything.

Shakey

Kiddman,

I have heard everything on your list, with the exception of the Magico horn, and I agree that these are well designed systems. But, entirely free of tonal coloration? No, they all have their characteristic sound. With the Classic Audio gear, I like both the reproduction gear and their modern fieldcoil designs. I think that we disagree more in terms of degree than anything else.

It is also, to some extent a matter of taste. While I really like the speakers mentioned, I have my own particular preference, which is for a bit warmer sound and less of a hard edge to the initial attack of the note than speakers like the Everest and most of the TAD drivers. You are correct that these speakers do not have the characteristic horn-type colorations (honky, or upper midrange peak, or shouty quality), but, they do have their own characteristic sound, like all speakers. I have not heard these in my own system, but, I know I could easily live with any of them and could probably tune the system to better fit my own preference.

I do think you have made a very good point that there are horn systems with quite a different set of characteristics than what is considered the weakness of horn systems. To say that "proper" horn systems "sound sweet, smooth yet detailed and dynamic" is something we agree on. The difference we have is on a matter of degree and what constitutes the best balance of various characteristics. That is where the "art" comes into play--good engineering gets one most of the way, but, tuning a system, even if that means deviating from supposed technically correct approach, is important for that last measure.

I will probably never have a chance to hear the Magico horns. If you have personal experience with them, I would welcome a brief description of their sound, particularly, how they differ from the sound of Magico's conventional dynamic speakers (a sound I particularly hate--very dry and brittle sounding).