Turnable database with TimeLine

But when the Micro is auto-correcting, it is doing so via a mechanical system that has lots more compliance built into it (the belt) compared to any direct-drive system. Thus there is more danger that the corrective action will lag behind the moment of the occurrence of the speed inaccuracy, leading to over-correction, and thus actually contributing to the problem, rather than to ameliorate it. I don't know that this is connected to the fact that others who revere MS tt's have remarked that they do not use the OEM MS motor, preferring other motors instead.

Syntax, I agree with your last post and do see the seeming contradiction in Halcro's comments. Having a large BD turntable which has a slight speed error which I can not hear, but which is evident with the TimeLine, I guess puts me in the subjectivist camp also. That's fine and I'm happy to be here.

The KAB does show accurate speed for my turntable, but I actually found the TimeLine to be easier and quicker to use. Not a big deal, but I do check speed about once a month, as the belts do stretch.

I am interested in Halcro's response to my my latter point about some turntable functions being of near-equal importance to speed accuracy.

Like so many threads, this one has evolved into a discussion rather than just a database of videos which for which I had hoped.

Lewm,
I dont have any preference as to direct drive, thread drive or rim drive. I prefer to make my decisions based on listening. I have owned all 3 drive types at various stages. Turntables owned and/or used in my own system include - Garrard 301/401, Townsend, Well Tempered, Sota, Oracle, Pink Triangle, Logic, Kenwood DD, Oracle, Goldmund & Final Audio to name a few.
TT's with the ET2/Carnegie Model One I have heard include Townsend, Sota's ( many ), Oracle ( several ), Final Audio, Goldmund Studio ( 2 of ).
I also own a Dynavector DV501 & Dynavector Nova 13D cartridge ( along with many other cartridges and arms. Incredulous as it may seem a customer here in New Zealand had up until recently a Dynavector 501/Nova 13D combination mounted on an L07D. I have run the Dynavector 501/Nova 13D many times on the Final. The same Nova 13D has since been removed from the L07D/Dynavector 501 and remounted on to an SME20 with SME V arm.
With regard to the SP10mk3 I have heard Richarkrebs system many times over the past 30 years which evolved from a Goldmund Studio/ET2 to the SP10mk3/ET2 - I sold him a Madrigal Carnegie Model One for his ET2 years ago.
I also have to hand an SP10mk3/Technics EPA100 for extended listening.
So the answer to your question is yes and no. I have heard these TT's with the same arm/cartridge combinations many times, but not so in my current system as it is always evolving.
If I did not own the Final Audio, I do not know what I would buy as the nearest equivalent is the Kondo Ginga which is a derivative of the Final Audio, although the Kondo has less sophisticated speed control and a much smaller motor than my Final Audio.
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/turntables-turntable-ginga-kondo-ginga-2014-02-05-analog-italy-irwin-oh

Halcro has just proved empirically the superiority of his Victors. His videos with 3 TAs in action at the same/different time is the most beautiful I´ve seen in hi-fi forums so far. Poetry in high fidelity turntables, and that´s pretty extraordinary. Let´s hope he will get soon fixed his good old TT101.
The speed constancy is the most important feature in TTs to produce music.
I changed from belt drive to the Salvation direct rim drive and the difference was like night and day. Mine maintains the speed stability for most of the time but does not pass the TimeLine test though, probably due to mains voltage fluctuations but that´s another thing.
The L07D is a fantastic vintage DD TT, as many here have posted, like the latest review by Dave the Messenger who praises his L07D over his heavily modded TNT.

Back to square one. We want more videos ! There are plenty of other threads for drive method/TT design discussions.

If your blindfolded friends can't identify the DD Victor from the BD Raven, but they have a clear preference for one over the other, what is it that they like? I must not understand your point.

I was referring to my previous statement….

Today, still.....you will read from experienced audiophiles how they can "hear" the effects of this speed correction circuitry in DD turntables.

to make the point that ‘hearing’ the artifacts of DD speed correction circuitry (aka quartz-locked) is not a factor in my listening room?
And those who make such claims may be hearing things other than that which they think? :-)

To clarify things for Dover……I have written many times that the ‘actual’ speed of a turntable is not as relevant as the ability to maintain ‘constant’ speed.
Why else would the TT-101 have the provision in its controls to vary the pitch up or down in increments of 6Hz?
When I wrote that I could hear the speed WOW from 33.33rpm to 33.32rpm……this was an instantaneous CHANGE in speed.
There is no way that I can tell if a turntable is rotating at 33.33rpm, 33.87rpm or 33.25rpm…..as long as there are no instantaneous variations.
And that’s why I believe that the extent of ‘stylus drag’ exhibited by a particular turntable is important.

Now the KAB strobe is an excellent device and no-one should be discouraged from using one to set the speeds of their turntables.
But for Peter and especially Lew (who has been championing the KAB for years now) to suggest that the KAB is as accurate as the Timeline and/or shows the effects of stylus drag…..is simply misleading.
HERE is a video showing the KAB on the Raven AC-2 both with and without stylus engaged.
The speed (33.33rpm) appears identical under both conditions and could lead one to surmise that ‘stylus drag’ is a myth?
Contrast that to the same Raven AC-2 with the TIMELINE where ‘stylus drag’ is confirmed and differs to the KAB results?

Finally….like Peterayer….I am disappointed that this Thread on the Timeline has somewhat been hijacked by those who have contributed nothing utilizing the Timeline….and who curiously seem to have an agenda against the Timeline?
I have nothing against subjectivists (being decidedly one myself)…..but this Thread is designed to remove subjectivism from the subject of turntable speed accuracy….and demonstrate objectively what has never before been documented?
It has not been claimed that perfect speed control produces the ‘perfect turntable’….but to actively ‘bash’ a scientifically objective tool and database appears suspiciously defensive?