Turnable database with TimeLine

Halcro, I applaud your efforts to document the effects of stylus drag to support the argument in objective terms. And your last post is very clear and a good explanation of what you are doing and attempting to show. My only criticism is that your hand-held camera moves enough as to be distracting and does make it more difficult to clearly see what is going on. Could you use a tripod to create a clearer video?

Interestingly, when I use the KAB strobe to set speed, it does show a very slight variation with the effect of stylus drag, which is why I have often said, that in my case with the SME 30/12, I set the speed with the stylus in the groove. I do understand your point that even this method does not answer the question as to what is happening with different amounts of drag and perhaps my table can not deal with that as effectively as your Victor does.

But, I will say that the KAB does show on my table the effects of drag as I have to adjust the controller about one click (1 hz or .01% or something for each click on the controller). The Timeline does show this more precisely and you have the added advantage to view the laser dash on a wall 20 feet away for extreme accuracy and the real story. I just contend that the Timeline operates at a level that is greater than the adjustability of my controller and my hearing to detect changes on this scale.

Instantaneous changes in pitch are another matter which I do not think that I hear in my system. Perhaps those with better training or ears could.

The 6Hz pitch increment of your Victor seems a bit course. Are these the increments by which you can adjust speed?

I also wish there were more videos added to this thread. It makes me question the confidence of some of those who criticize the TimeLine.

Accuracy and measurements are not everything, but I learned first hand last night how a speaker movement of 3/16th" away from the listener can alter the sound.

Lewm, I'm not sure if the MS motor is actually auto correcting anything, but you're right about the belt affecting the sound. Set the tension even slightly too loose and it will lose control over the platter. This isn't much of a problem if you use a rubber belt but critical with thread and even with their SF-1 belt. The speed will still read correctly using a strobe but the platter is slipping undetectably. This results in a lackluster sound, vague image and loose bass, this is why you sometimes see people switching to a different motor using rubber belts. The belt tension will make or break the sound of MS tables.

I'm pleased at your reaction Harold-not-the-barrel......
This Thread has a few videos of both DD and belt-drive turntables,,,,,enough to form an impression of their performances under load.....
What we have still to see, are Idlers and Rim-drives with the Timeline?
If you have an iPhone....it would really help us to see your Salvation direct rim-drive with the Timeline? You can upload the video directly from the iPhone to YouTube.
It really doesn't matter whether it 'passes' the Timeline test? It would be great to see exactly how it 'fails'.....as this would add significantly to the Database?

Peterayer, I had several KAB strobe units in the past and noticed sample to to sample variations and locking at a different speed from my AC strobes, so I sopped using them. Only recently we got the battery operated Ortofon units in and again we found the KAB strobes a bit off.

Disclaimer- Ortofon dealer.

Sorry, Henry. I may have failed to be clear about my opinion on the Timeline vs the KAB. I agree that the former is probably a more demanding standard than the latter. What I meant to say is that when the KAB is "happy", I tend to be happy too, meaning the KAB standard seems to be good enough for me.

Interesting thing happened last weekend. I invited my audiophile neighbor over to my house to listen to the Beveridge speakers I have set up as a second system in my basement. The source was my highly modified Lenco tt (slate plinth, Jeremy Superbearing, Speed dialed in from Walker Audio Precision Motor Controller). When in the course of our listening I played a 45 rpm LP, by switching the Walker from 33 to 45, he remarked that he is cursed with perfect pitch and that the Lenco sounded a tad slow on 45. We checked his judgement using the KAB strobe, with and without the stylus drag. The KAB showed without doubt that the Lenco was in fact running a tad FAST, not slow, at 45. But the speed was "constant", in that the "45" viewed via the strobe, was not wiggling back and forth, but drifting slowly in the direction that indicates overspeed. Anyway, we live and learn. (This guy owns the Timeline that I have been able to borrow on the odd occasion. His own expensive belt-drive tt is revealed by his own Timeline to be wildly variable in speed. The maker is replacing his motor controller and belt in hopes of curing the problem.)