This will be my last post on this thread simply because I find it unfair for others to be caught in the middle of this unfortunate debate.
My point Abrew19:
Music is a simple matter of preferences; obtaining the best ancillary synergy you can affort in order to satisfy your music taste. Expensive parts or engineering DOES NOT guarantee GOOD SOUND!
In my opinion (as well as the opinion of hundred of thousands of music lovers around the world), there is nothing wrong with either VPI, Rega, or any other turntable manufacturer. In fact, EVERY turntable manufacturer will find ways to reduce cost in order to mass produce their product. Do a little research and take a look at the VPI Traveler V1 vs V2:
The logo is no longer a nice badge on the front, but silk screened on the top of the table, the feet are no longer made out of metal with rubber tips, but now all rubber, the tonearm plate release knob is no longer in a cut out, but has been redesigned so a cut out no longer exist, the tonearm cable din plug no longer has a metal housing but a plastic one, the record mat has been changed, the power supply is no longer on the table w/ an IEC connector, there is now an external switching power supply which seems now connected with a barrel connector, the power switch is now this black thing on the top of the table vs a nice metal button on the side from the original, the housing of the motor is now a longer lower profile affair on the bottom vs the deeper more squared box of the first generation.
Why all these changes? To improve profitability. Anyone could interpret these moves as cheaping out correct? Does it mean that now the V2 sounds worse? HECK NO Abrew19! Guess what? It still sounds superb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cheaper construction for sure, but still sounds great, you get the point?
Now to debate your STATEMENT on Rega tables:
"There is not much to them to justify their price. Everything is pretty crude. Something that just about anybody could make in their garage with some basic tools".
There is A LOT to them to MORE than justify their price. Just the RB303 alone retails for $595.00. To be able to sell the RP3 for $895.00 baffles the mind of MANY music lovers!!!! BTW, I would like to see you come up with a similar sounding product using basic tools from your garage.
"Rega cheaps out on the design and claims low mass, hi rigidity is superior .... then their customers are forced to implement their own high mass isolation techniques (at their own expense) to fill in the gap".
As I explained to you earlier, Rega DOES NOT cheap out on design. On the contrary, Rega's revolutionary design is BASED on low mass and rigidity. Do yourself a favor and research the NAIAD and then tell me if Rega cheaps out!
Also, I explained to you that MANY aftermarket products create an effective environment of high absorption around turntables to drain away the destructive mechanical energy and change it to benign thermal energy.
It will be ignorant to believe that this problem is unique to Rega tables. Every turntable (including VPI) WILL greatly benefit from sitting on top of a dedicated isolation platform.
"It's 3 pieces of glass glued together man! No machining required. Good engineering to find a way to cut corners from multiple layers of machined metal. They save a lot here. Odds are they source the motors (and the guts to the power supply) from China for dirt cheap... any takers?
As for their custom made skeletal plinth don't get me started".
No machinig required to cut the glass? No engineering necessary to design/produce the double brace skeltal plinth? Who cares if they source the motors from China of Taiwan as long as it works!
In the words of Roy Gandy:
The biggest problem is that nothing is perfect. There is no such thing as an arm that wont vibrate itself, that wont have its own resonances. When the arm moves across the record, which it must do because the groove is an inward-leading spiral, when it moves, its bearings will have some friction which will put a load on the stylus which will then give a slightly less than perfect transcription of the vibration in the record. If the bearings themselves move, which most do, if the arm then moves with them, then it wont be picking up all the vibration that is in the groove. Its the lack of perfection in this chain that we must design against. We are trying our best to counter these imperfections which all interact in a very complex series of ways.
Like I've said many times before Abrew19, in the end there is no right or wrong, it's just a matter of taste.
In closing:
First, I am NOT stating that Rega is "better" than others, just stating that, TO MY EARS, it sounds better than many other TTs I've owned and/or auditioned.
Second, this is MY PERSONAL OPINION and in no way am I trying to persuade you (or others) otherwise.
Last, sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.
However, to STATE that Rega cheaps out compared to VPI (or any other turntable manufacturer) would be negligent when in fact it is simply just another tried and proved approach to turntable engineering.
SOUND Abrew19, SOUND is what matters the MOST. PEOPLE forget about everything else when the SOUND is RIGHT!
Trully no hard feelings Abrew19.
My point Abrew19:
Music is a simple matter of preferences; obtaining the best ancillary synergy you can affort in order to satisfy your music taste. Expensive parts or engineering DOES NOT guarantee GOOD SOUND!
In my opinion (as well as the opinion of hundred of thousands of music lovers around the world), there is nothing wrong with either VPI, Rega, or any other turntable manufacturer. In fact, EVERY turntable manufacturer will find ways to reduce cost in order to mass produce their product. Do a little research and take a look at the VPI Traveler V1 vs V2:
The logo is no longer a nice badge on the front, but silk screened on the top of the table, the feet are no longer made out of metal with rubber tips, but now all rubber, the tonearm plate release knob is no longer in a cut out, but has been redesigned so a cut out no longer exist, the tonearm cable din plug no longer has a metal housing but a plastic one, the record mat has been changed, the power supply is no longer on the table w/ an IEC connector, there is now an external switching power supply which seems now connected with a barrel connector, the power switch is now this black thing on the top of the table vs a nice metal button on the side from the original, the housing of the motor is now a longer lower profile affair on the bottom vs the deeper more squared box of the first generation.
Why all these changes? To improve profitability. Anyone could interpret these moves as cheaping out correct? Does it mean that now the V2 sounds worse? HECK NO Abrew19! Guess what? It still sounds superb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cheaper construction for sure, but still sounds great, you get the point?
Now to debate your STATEMENT on Rega tables:
"There is not much to them to justify their price. Everything is pretty crude. Something that just about anybody could make in their garage with some basic tools".
There is A LOT to them to MORE than justify their price. Just the RB303 alone retails for $595.00. To be able to sell the RP3 for $895.00 baffles the mind of MANY music lovers!!!! BTW, I would like to see you come up with a similar sounding product using basic tools from your garage.
"Rega cheaps out on the design and claims low mass, hi rigidity is superior .... then their customers are forced to implement their own high mass isolation techniques (at their own expense) to fill in the gap".
As I explained to you earlier, Rega DOES NOT cheap out on design. On the contrary, Rega's revolutionary design is BASED on low mass and rigidity. Do yourself a favor and research the NAIAD and then tell me if Rega cheaps out!
Also, I explained to you that MANY aftermarket products create an effective environment of high absorption around turntables to drain away the destructive mechanical energy and change it to benign thermal energy.
It will be ignorant to believe that this problem is unique to Rega tables. Every turntable (including VPI) WILL greatly benefit from sitting on top of a dedicated isolation platform.
"It's 3 pieces of glass glued together man! No machining required. Good engineering to find a way to cut corners from multiple layers of machined metal. They save a lot here. Odds are they source the motors (and the guts to the power supply) from China for dirt cheap... any takers?
As for their custom made skeletal plinth don't get me started".
No machinig required to cut the glass? No engineering necessary to design/produce the double brace skeltal plinth? Who cares if they source the motors from China of Taiwan as long as it works!
In the words of Roy Gandy:
The biggest problem is that nothing is perfect. There is no such thing as an arm that wont vibrate itself, that wont have its own resonances. When the arm moves across the record, which it must do because the groove is an inward-leading spiral, when it moves, its bearings will have some friction which will put a load on the stylus which will then give a slightly less than perfect transcription of the vibration in the record. If the bearings themselves move, which most do, if the arm then moves with them, then it wont be picking up all the vibration that is in the groove. Its the lack of perfection in this chain that we must design against. We are trying our best to counter these imperfections which all interact in a very complex series of ways.
Like I've said many times before Abrew19, in the end there is no right or wrong, it's just a matter of taste.
In closing:
First, I am NOT stating that Rega is "better" than others, just stating that, TO MY EARS, it sounds better than many other TTs I've owned and/or auditioned.
Second, this is MY PERSONAL OPINION and in no way am I trying to persuade you (or others) otherwise.
Last, sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.
However, to STATE that Rega cheaps out compared to VPI (or any other turntable manufacturer) would be negligent when in fact it is simply just another tried and proved approach to turntable engineering.
SOUND Abrew19, SOUND is what matters the MOST. PEOPLE forget about everything else when the SOUND is RIGHT!
Trully no hard feelings Abrew19.