Graham Phantom Anti-Skate. Is it effective at all?

I am not anal about it. I try to use the minimum possible. I also observe the cantilever when it drops on the record to see if it deflects on impact when it starts it's groove travels. Not a perfect method by any means but works for me with the arms I use....close enough, imo. I also pay close attention to the inner groove right channel and listen for distortion...and apply more skate if needed.

I also observe the cantilever when it drops on the record to see if it deflects on impact when it starts it's groove travels. Not a perfect method by any means but works for me with the arms I use

On impact the stylus suspension will be stretched and the elasticity of the joint will be at its maximum. Therefore this is the worst time to measure anti skate using cantilever flex as a measure.
It would appear far more logical to me to check that the cantilever is centred whilst playing. The caveat here is that many folk adjust anti skate without checking that the horizontal bearings in the tonearm are level - a few microns out can affect antiskate requirement significantly. The other trap using listening or channel balance is the possibility that one might use anti skate to compensate for other system issues.

Personally for anti-skate I am looking for accurate set up of turntable and arm first - ensure that both platter is perfectly level, check that the horizontal arm bearings are perfectly level by balancing the arm to zero and check that there is no float in or out, I check that a small tap creates the same travel distance in both directions ( with the arm balanced to zero ). As a high end dealer many years ago my experience is that many arm boards are not level when the platter is level. Furthermore in many gimbal type arms I have found that when the arm base is level, the horizontal arm bearings are not. This is why the float test is very important and will help to minimise anti skate.

Then after careful set up of the cartridge including alignment, VTA, tracking weight ( its an iterative process ) for anti-skate I check that the cantilever is centred whilst playing in the middle of a record. Using your ears before and after each adjustment is helpful.

I would expect that a unipivot arm ( like the VPI ) will have less issues with anti skate than a gimbal arm because the issue of ensuring the horizontal bearings are perfectly level does not arise, and the bearing friction should be considerably lower if the unipivot has been designed correctly.

The constant outward deflection of the arm... exerts a force that inhibits the stylus and produces a side damping. One wants the stylus to be absolutely free to negotiate its travels.

Bingo! That's what I hear. It sounds exactly like using too much VTF.

How much is "excessive"? With my best cartridge, *any* amount of A/S audibly compresses dynamics and raises the sound floor.

Totally agree with Dover's methodology, very astute and technically correct IMO. However, I prefer the improved sonics from zero lateral damping and from reducing the doohickeys hanging off my tonearm. I buy gear and LPs to listen to music. If optimizing sonics has some slight impact on the life of my gear or LPs I won't live long enough to hear it, but I'd notice impaired sonics in a heartbeat.

As a high end dealer many years ago my experience is that many arm boards are not level when the platter is level. Furthermore in many gimbal type arms I have found that when the arm base is level, the horizontal arm bearings are not. This is why the float test is very important and will help to minimise anti skate.

the best posting I read in the last 3 years here about AS. I agree and I am amazed, that only Dover detect that a lot of Arm boards are not correct in combination with a level platter. Famous example of our modern time are the ones for Germany, mainly black, surrounded by a few motors and bought from customers who prefer to read hypes rather than to think about what they buy. But there are more out there. I also agree with the Arms, we have Fans who prefer wood tubes for several thousand $$, or plastic, or simply wrong executed tubes...and there is only one out there who used his brain to develop something useful, The Axiom Arm from Acoustical Systems. It has an independent leveling. A nice detail which will never get the respect it deserves :-)
The AS depends also on Arm Geometry (---> Arch Angle for example), when that is weak you can adjust whatever you want...day in ...day out....or those low VTF designs, which ruin the cantilever on their own while playing...some manufacturers offer a re-align service after buy...I miss the time of the good, old 2,5gr VTF units...they were buried because they run too long :-)

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Stringreen, and Doug

A/S is included with tonearms as a selling point....when skating became the new adjustment of perfection, it was hard to sell an arm without it. In truth, A/S is very illusive...there are so many factors that contribute to it that there is just no way to adjust so that it does what intended. Most arms, when set according to directions apply WAY too much a/s . The constant outward deflection of the arm...when not needed...especially with too high a setting, exerts a force that inhibits the stylus and produces a side damping. One wants the stylus to be absolutely free to negotiate its travels.

It is not the case that antiskate is some sort of sales thing . As mentioned above there is good reason that for half a century or more probably more than 99.9% of arms had and still have it. Antiskate is provided to compensate for skating forces. You adjust it to equalise distortion on each channel. If you run an arm without it then by definition one channel must have more tracking force than the other. End of story.

Unless, of course, your arm is providing a force by some other means, eg inadvertently through using heavy wire through the bearing, such as Cardas, or twisting the wire deliberately, such as VPI or AR, or being off level, or having stiff bearings.

And, of course, it is cheaper to make an arm without the facility.

With no antiskate there are force acting to pull the arm inwards. If you complain about the effects of the outward force applied using antiskate, but to where does the inward force magically disappear when not using it? None of the anti skate advocates have addressed this, nor why the unequal forces mysteriously don't cause distortion.

There must be compensation with extra downforce (all things being equal), to increase the VTF on the right channel.

All this is not to say that all antiskate methods are perfect. Their physical presence may well affect the sound.

And of course the arms on which they are used may suffer from the above mentioned wiring and other issues, so rendering the mechanism redundant.

John

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But If it all sounds ok because fair enough.