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Best interconnects & speaker cable? I don't get it

I don't know if there is a question here but I'm posting this to see if there is something I'm missing or overlooking in this observation. To the point, I've read many posts arguing the benefits of one or more conductors over others and I almost understand some discussions regarding, at least, comparisons of wire gauge for speakers. Maybe it relates to my less than well developed ability to discern subtlities in sound quality but I really can't hear much, if any, difference between interconnects or speaker cables.

As an example, I was recently experimenting with an amplifier selector (Niles DPS-1) which can accommodate a max of 14AWG speaker wire. In doing so I had to disconnect my existing cables which are "high end" 12 gauge per leg bi-wires. In making this comment I realize that just because my old wires are big and expensive does not necessarily mean they are the best match for my system or even any good. But...even though I think I am able to hear some small difference between them, to say that I think one is better than the other would be a stretch.

It seems to me that there are factors that would logically lend to the issue of quality, the primary of which would be conductor resistance and/or impedance. However, for transmission of line level signals, I can't see impedance as a significant factor.

All that being said, I believe that some listeners with acutely honed abilities can actually hear these differences and, in a way, I am somewhat glad that I don't; It makes wire choices much easier and way less expensive.

My current system consists of Shanling S-100 CD player, CALSigma 2 DAC, Rogue Audio Sphinx and Martin Logan Odyssey speakers with various interconnect and speaker wires.
128x128broadstone
ghosthouse's avatar
ghosthouse
4,316 posts
 
Jmcgrogan2 - FINALLY! Glad to see someone else commenting on what I've been
wondering for some time. To your several good points...why the heck is it wrong
to use cables as 'tone controls'? They act as tone controls whether or not
consciously chosen for that purpose. Are effects of frequency balance &
extension, tone & timbre ignored in discussions of 'synergy' between cables and
the rest of a system? If synergy is preferred and antagonistic effects to be
avoided, then the contribution of cables to tone has to be considered when
choosing them. If such is the case, what's wrong with choosing cables to
improve a system's tonal balance?
frogman
7,472 posts
 
****...why the heck is it wrong to use cables as 'tone controls'? ****

Nothing wrong if personal taste is the goal. But, to the extent that we
can agree that distortion is not a good thing, the very best results are
always achieved when one keeps the goal of faithfulness to the sound of
live music at the forefront. It is a more challenging methodology because it,
first and foremost, requires knowing what that sound is and that requires a
lot of commitment; casual exposure to that sound is not enough. This,
combined with the simple fact that, while acknowledging that they all do it
to a degree, some cables do a better job of NOT acting as tone controls
than others; IOW, they get out of the way of the signal more than others. If
one truly knows the sound of live music (inconsistencies, variability and all)
and with enough experience playing with different equipment, certain
patterns emerge that make it easier to determine how good a job a new
piece of gear or cable does of getting out of the way and how much of the
change one hears is distortion being added to the sonic soup. Of course,
"personal taste" can be substituted for "sound of
live"; but, that's a different matter.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
@Tubegroover, sorry, I was not attacking you per se. I only got on my soapbox as an opportunity to respond to many in this hobby who trump that line that 'cables should not be used as tone controls'. It just set me off because it is pure fantasy to imagine a cable with no tonal balance of it's own. You are absolutely right, all cables ARE tone controls.

@Ghousthouse, there is nothing wrong with using cables as tone controls. The folks that beat the drums that cables should not be used as tone controls are only fooling themselves. I do know folks who tune the sound to their tastes around the equipment they have by trying various cables, and I also know folks who tune the sound to their tastes around the cables that they have by trying various equipment. Me, personally I find that tuning with cables around equipment is easier and less expensive than tuning with equipment around cables, but that's just me. I do not insist that this is the absolute path. There are many paths to audio nirvana, choose what works best for you.
ghosthouse's avatar
ghosthouse
4,316 posts
 
Jmc & Frogman - My 'what the heck' question was intended as rhetorical and to reflect my reaction when I read comments against using cable for tone control. Whether the goal is to more closely approach some objective standard of realism or satisfy a subjective standard based on personal taste, cables are useful tools. In either case, It makes sense to me to do the heavy lifting with a combination of equipment that 'plays well together' and use cabling for fine tuning - not as a band-aid for some more fundamental equipment mis-match. I suspect that's what many of the 'anti-tone control people' are intending. To the OP, Broadstone, I was a complete wire skeptic not so long ago. Maybe the stuff I had was completely mis-matched to my gear, but I definitely heard a difference and often improvement (mainly better resolution and more bass extension) with one- at-a-time changes to speaker cable, ICs or power cable. Surprised me when I heard it...not something I was expecting given my very modest system.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
I hate to judge before all the facts are in, and yes, I understand that it can take an awfully long time to determine the sound of a cable what with all the break in time required, but I have to say that unless the cables under evaluation have been cryogenically treated AND broken in fully on a cable cooker or at least the break in track of the XLO test CD, there's just no way to appreciate fully what a particular cable is actually capable of, so in my opinion it's kind of a waste of time to try to arrive at the "best cable" for a particular system. Has anyone actually sat down and calculated the permutations and combinations of thr top ten interconnects and the top ten speaker cables, leaving the cryo and break in aside for a moment? ;-)
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