Atlantic City casinos closing...

"07-23-14: Onhwy61
One of the great prevailing myths in American society is that poor people deserve to be poor and rich people deserve to be rich."

I've heard the saying, but one of out great prevailing myths? Where did you find that info?

"07-23-14: Czarivey
Onhwy61, It's true approximately 98%.
Poor pays higher interest rate, often higher tax, higher insurance and very often can't get a descent job."

Being poor does not mean you pay higher interest rates. Your credit rating determines that. Poor people that pay their bills, get low interest rates. Higher taxes? Other than a mistake, I don't see how that's possible. Higher insurance is also nonsense. First of all, charging someone higher insurance based on their income is illegal. Insurance is based on risk. If you have a good driving record, you get a low rate; even poor people. If you take good care of yourself, you get a lower health insurance rate. Jobs? Every well off person I know was poor at one time.

Do I have to continue? It just looks like you guys are picking things out just to argue over. Selecting only ideas and facts that just supports your argument just so you can win, does no one any good. If someone has a good work ethic and doesn't commit crimes, may have something to do with how successful they are. Wouldn't you agree? And if you do, why not include that in your posts, as well?

Selecting only ideas and facts that just supports your argument just so you can win, does no one any good.

But you just did that.

Being poor usually means you live in a poor neighborhood. Your zip code heavily influences your credit and insurance rates. As a percentage of their income, poor people pay higher taxes (including sales taxes, gas surcharges, taxes on utilities, etc) than poor people. And as far as not committing crimes and having a good work ethic, the NYPD walked up to a man in broad daylight and choked him to death for apparently having those two qualities. Poor people have little say in what activities are considered crimes and that is a large part of the reason why jails are filled with poor people.

Do I have to continue?

One needs only to google predatory lending practices to see how badly the poor are marginalized and screwed.

I'll continue.

One needs only to google redlining practices in insurance rates and discover that although it's illegal, it's still done through other means (I used to work in insurance so don't try to tell me otherwise).

I'll continue.

What we take as added costs (taxes, surcharges, fees) amount to total, all consuming costs for the poor. Every penny they make or procure goes right out the door. So yes, they are the hardest hit and it's not their fault. They just have the smallest voice in government and are the last anyone pays attention to.

Except to denigrate.

All the best,
Nonoise

"07-23-14: Onhwy61

Selecting only ideas and facts that just supports your argument just so you can win, does no one any good.

But you just did that."

I agree. You did one side, I did the other.

"Being poor usually means you live in a poor neighborhood. Your zip code heavily influences your credit and insurance rates."

They can't factor your zip code in for credit. Its not allowed, check it if you don't believe me. For some types of insurance, they can. Whether or not the zip heavily determines your rate has very little to do with income. For example, if you live in an area that has very bad wheather, yes, you can have high HO rates. But that has nothing to do with your income, everyone pays high rates.

"As a percentage of their income, poor people pay higher taxes (including sales taxes, gas surcharges, taxes on utilities, etc) than poor people."

Maybe. You have to take that on a case by case basis. Don't forget everyone has to pay those taxes. Also, don't forget to factor in poor people are usually exempt from most, if not all income tax. (Yes, I know they're exempt because they're poor, but it still helps. That's why its done.)

" And as far as not committing crimes and having a good work ethic, the NYPD walked up to a man in broad daylight and choked him to death for apparently having those two qualities."

I don't mind having a debate, but that statement really has no place in this discussion. You're singling out one extreme exception, and when you really look at the incident, the Cop was 100% at fault, regardless of whatever his excuse was. You're smarter than that.

" Poor people have little say in what activities are considered crimes and that is a large part of the reason why jails are filled with poor people."

I think we are going to have to disagree on that one. Personally, I feel its an insult to law abiding poor people to make a statement like that. (I know you didn't mean it to be an insult, I'm just saying.) Our laws are not perfect and they never will be, but I feel you're making a choice when you commit illegal activity. There's plenty of poor people who play by the rules and get by.

"07-23-14: Nonoise
One needs only to google predatory lending practices to see how badly the poor are marginalized and screwed."

Its definitely a problem. There is some partial progress being made on that one. But don't forget, credit issues like this don't effect only poor people. You can make a very good case that reckless credit practices, on both sides of the fence, have turned middle and upper class people into poor people. Common sense and personal responsibility can go a long way.

"One needs only to google redlining practices in insurance rates and discover that although it's illegal, it's still done through other means (I used to work in insurance so don't try to tell me otherwise)."

That whole statement is a little vague. I do work in insurance. I'm fully licensed in both P&C and Life & Health in 3 states, as well as having my related Fed securities licenses. I think what you are talking about exists like you say, but the problem is no where near large enough to make a case for keeping poor people poor. Actually, I'm surprised that you don't bring up the biggest problem with insurance companies; paying out legitimate claims. They're absolute scumbags when it comes to that.

"What we take as added costs (taxes, surcharges, fees) amount to total, all consuming costs for the poor. Every penny they make or procure goes right out the door. So yes, they are the hardest hit and it's not their fault. They just have the smallest voice in government and are the last anyone pays attention to."

Why is it not their fault? I've had my ups and downs, and at times I was definitely poor. But it was my fault. I'm the one that made a bunch of jackass decisions that led to the result. I know people will probably take offense to this, but for most poor people, it is they're fault they have no money. I understand there can be exemptions, but people just don't do enough to help themselves. You also mention the poor having a small voice in government and no one pays attention to them. Nothing could be further from the truth. With all the billions that we spend on programs that help the poor, we just get very little positive results. Great attention is paid, its just not working.

The poor may not pay higher taxes percentage wise, but interest rates depend on how good a persons credit score is. So is the rate of auto ins. 5 years ago I checked ins. rates for pilot escorts and it averaged about 3800.00 per year. Mine would have been 1965.00 (if I wanted the job) When I asked my insurance agent why mine was so much lower, it was due to my high credit rating. Wish I could buy highend equipment (for cash) because of that.